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Srdjan
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 316
Location: Nis
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 Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject: How to center a blurred Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35 2.4 |
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Srdjan wrote:
Hi I have little problem or maybe not? I had Canon cropped sensor 60d, and when I was used mentioned lens it was sharp enough even at 2.4. Now I m using FF 6d, and when I put flek at 2.4 on the body, picture is sharp in the middle but at the corners are blurred. I check everything inside the body, all the glasses are in the place. Today i got another flek, and it have the same problem. Is this with all fleks at 2.4?
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Probably, a lot of lenses are like that wide open, they weren't designed to be shot wide open!
The advantage of the Flek 2.4/35 over an older lens like the Meyer Primagon 4.5/35 is that the image in the viewfinder is a lot brighter due to the f2.4 max aperture, but both lenses should be closed at least 1 stop to give a satisfactory image. Most 35mm lenses are optimised for f5.6 or f8, there are some that were optimised for wide open shooting, but they are exotic very expensive items.
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Probably, a lot of lenses are like that wide open, they weren't designed to be shot wide open!
The advantage of the Flek 2.4/35 over an older lens like the Meyer Primagon 4.5/35 is that the image in the viewfinder is a lot brighter due to the f2.4 max aperture, but both lenses should be closed at least 1 stop to give a satisfactory image. Most 35mm lenses are optimised for f5.6 or f8, there are some that were optimised for wide open shooting, but they are exotic very expensive items. |
+1
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frenched
Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Posts: 395
Location: MD USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:42 am Post subject: |
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frenched wrote:
Almost all lenses shot wide open show certain "effects". Those that don't have a serious impact on your wallet. |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I'm sorry to have to contradict my collegues, but what's happening to you has nothing to do with wide open.
What you are experiencing is the difference between an APS-C camera, such as the 60D, and a full frame camera, such as the 6D.
An APS-C camera only captures the central part of the image created by the lens, in the proportion that is exactly shown by this sample image that I prepared:
The bad edges and corners that you see in the 6D pictures, have always been there, but your 60D did not let you see them.
APS-C cameras are not the best cameras to evaluate a lens. The difference between most lenses happens in the edges and corners.
The good side of the coin is that with an APS-C camera, most lenses that you use will be good (because the camera only uses the "sweet spot" of the lenses).
So you don't need to buy expensive lenses with an APS-C camera: most lenses will work just the same way on it. APS-C equalizes most of the differences.
Unfortunately, it equalizes also part of the character of the lenses - but that's another matter.
In any case, if you plan to make an investment of significant amount of money on a lens, my advice is to try it on full frame before buying - or ask here for advice of full frame users.
You don't need a digital full frame camera for testing - a film camera will also do the job.
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simbon4o
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 390
Location: Bulgaria
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:08 am Post subject: |
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simbon4o wrote:
Your copy can be damaged also. Search with google about it. Those fleks are often not well calibrated, some of the lens elements have the ability to move in time and the result almost every time is blured corners. The lens is not perfect on FF in corners but it should be acceptable and from F4.0 good.
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
| simbon4o wrote: |
| Your copy can be damaged also. Search with google about it. Those fleks are often not well calibrated, some of the lens elements have the ability to move in time and the result almost every time is blured corners. The lens is not perfect on FF in corners but it should be acceptable and from F4.0 good. |
Element decentering is a possibility, in that case however it would be visibly worse on one corner/side than the other(s), but this does not seem to be the case, since he does not mention it.
Also, he mentions that he examined the elements inside.
Consider that he's basically comparing the centre of the image frame with the perifery, thinking that they are the same. Very few lenses would "survive" this kind of comparison!
I used to have the 2.4/35 Flek and my copy, too, was visibly weak in the corners. Not by a lot, but surely much if I compared the corners with the centre of the image, which was very good!
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Orio..your written English is excellent and often wondered if your speaking English is as good as you write? Also glad that you have mentioned a film camera, when you consider for as little as £5-£10 you can get a M42 camera than can test any M42 lens and same for other mounts.
Anyway the thread has interested me as I too have a Flek but only have used it stopped down and the results are excellent at least for scenery, but I have some film to use up and will take shots of a brick wall WO and stopped down.
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Srdjan
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 316
Location: Nis
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Srdjan wrote:
Thank you everyone for the answers. Thank you Orio for explanation for difference between APS-C cameras and FF cameras, but I already know that, as that all the lenses wide open are not so sharp at the corners.
But my simple question i just about Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35 2.4, I never notices so much difference in sharpness (or have to start I get used to FF). I will make photos and post it here, and owners of flak can tell me is this normal. I read somewhere that flaks are very sensitive to glass movements. I know that lest glass of first lens group can easy fall of, I checked that everything ok. But i think that I read somewhere that also front glass can be adjusted or I m wrong?
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
| Srdjan wrote: |
| Thank you Orio for explanation for difference between APS-C cameras and FF cameras, but I already know that |
Then, if you know the difference, why are you comparing them?
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Srdjan
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 316
Location: Nis
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Srdjan wrote:
Ok I knew I made confusion with that. But I think when I post photos when I get home you will understand what's bothering me.
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Basilisk
Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 356
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Basilisk wrote:
Film is OK for testing full frame performance, but you will need a good emulsion and scan to get the same resolution you get from a 20 megapixel sensor.
I shot some film with my Flek on a Spotmatic F, and the edges look OK, but I think that is mostly stopped down. Given that f2.4 on full frame gives you fairly shallow DOF, unless you like taking hand held pictures of brick walls in low light, the corners mostly don't need to be sharp. If a lens gives me critical sharpness wide open in the central 2/3 of frame, then I am pretty happy (and full frame sharpness stopped down) |
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:49 am Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
| Orio wrote: |
| Srdjan wrote: |
| Thank you Orio for explanation for difference between APS-C cameras and FF cameras, but I already know that |
Then, if you know the difference, why are you comparing them? |
Orio - I think what Srdjan is actually asking about is whether the "blurring" in the corners of his full-frame images is typical of the Flektogon lens. His concern appears to be over the amount of image degradation he's seeing for the first time . . . it seems a perfectly reasonable "comparison" to me  I'm certainly interested to see what he's found.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| Basilisk wrote: |
Film is OK for testing full frame performance, but you will need a good emulsion and scan to get the same resolution you get from a 20 megapixel sensor.
I shot some film with my Flek on a Spotmatic F, and the edges look OK, but I think that is mostly stopped down. Given that f2.4 on full frame gives you fairly shallow DOF, unless you like taking hand held pictures of brick walls in low light, the corners mostly don't need to be sharp. If a lens gives me critical sharpness wide open in the central 2/3 of frame, then I am pretty happy (and full frame sharpness stopped down) |
......but how much does it cost for a FF Digital camera with 20mp sensor.
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Basilisk
Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 356
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Basilisk wrote:
| Excalibur wrote: |
| Basilisk wrote: |
Film is OK for testing full frame performance, but you will need a good emulsion and scan to get the same resolution you get from a 20 megapixel sensor.
I shot some film with my Flek on a Spotmatic F, and the edges look OK, but I think that is mostly stopped down. Given that f2.4 on full frame gives you fairly shallow DOF, unless you like taking hand held pictures of brick walls in low light, the corners mostly don't need to be sharp. If a lens gives me critical sharpness wide open in the central 2/3 of frame, then I am pretty happy (and full frame sharpness stopped down) |
......but how much does it cost for a FF Digital camera with 20mp sensor. |
I agree - though if you don't have a full frame sensor, then you can relax about the full frame edges!
Annoyingly, I have finally succumbed to buying a Nikon D600, which is great for Nikon legacy glass, but not so good for my other manual lenses. Canon would have had a better flange distance, but I didn't want to start from scratch on buying native lenses. |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
I've never found the edges great on the Flek 35/2.4, or the 20/2.8, particularly on full frame. The lenses have lovely centre sharpness, and the 20mm lenses are very good at distortion control.
However, there is something very film like in the rendering which I do like 
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
| ManualFocus-G wrote: |
I've never found the edges great on the Flek 35/2.4, or the 20/2.8, particularly on full frame. The lenses have lovely centre sharpness, and the 20mm lenses are very good at distortion control.
However, there is something very film like in the rendering which I do like |
+1
Edges (infinity) on full frame get sharp at f8; if decentralized element then one side edge is softer.
Flektogon 35mm isn't panorama lens but table products shooter
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Srdjan
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 316
Location: Nis
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Srdjan wrote:
In the end I made small test, and I figure it out that my new flack need some adjustment. But here is test so you can see some interesting results. I used 2 fleks, rolleinar and color-skoparex and made wide open pictures with Canon 6D. I make centar focus at windows, and then cut photos (because of size) so that windows are on the right side. I make photos from hands. I think I couldn't achieve focus with Rolleinar, something was hard going (maybe lens hit glass) so I gave up. The winer is voitlander or someone call it distagon . But it was at 2.8 not 2.4.
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std
Joined: 09 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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std wrote:
Keep the skoparex - both fleks are quite decentered.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| std wrote: |
| Keep the skoparex - both fleks are quite decentered. |
+1
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Srdjan
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
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Location: Nis
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Srdjan wrote:
This issue with fleks is so simple to fix. I did it on both fleks and they are perfect now. Just unscrew name barrel with hands and you will see three screws holding front element group. Playing around to place front group in center and everything is perfect. Thats all!
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miran
Joined: 01 Aug 2012
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Location: Slovenia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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miran wrote:
| Srdjan wrote: |
| Just unscrew name barrel with hands and you will see three screws holding front element group. |
What exactly do you mean by that? I can unscrew the thin black retaining ring and the the front element falls out. I can only place it back again the only way it will go in. I can see three screws through the little gap between the outside barrel and the inner barrel with the front group, but nothing else moves. I can't get to those three screws.  |
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Srdjan
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 316
Location: Nis
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Srdjan wrote:
The three screws that holds first glass are the ones that are looking for. The fine-tuning of this screws will make photos to be perfect. Goal is that canter of this glass match the other ones. You can do it looking at the live view of camera with lens on (like I did).
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kds315*
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:28 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
I have changed the title accordingly, as finally now it is clear what it is about.....
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Srdjan
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
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Location: Nis
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Srdjan wrote:
Title is better now, everyone have this issue now can find answer here.
Miran post picture where you stack, we can give you direction.
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