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Help Needed: Canon 50mm F1.2 LTM: Oil or Lens Separation?
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Help Needed: Canon 50mm F1.2 LTM: Oil or Lens Separation? Reply with quote
I purchased this Canon 50mm F1.2 LTM off of eBay for $329 with some Micro scratching on the front element and what looks like either oil on the inner element or separation! Can you guys tell me what you think it might be!? I don't want to disassemble the lens until I decide to keep it. Otherwise I can return it for a full refund. The ring could be oil but my worst fear is that it is balsam separation which will have me returning the lens!

Here are some pictures! Let me know what it could be? There is a few micro scratches on the front element but those don't have me as worried as this faint ring in one of the inner elements. I don't know what separation would look like in one of these old canon rangefinder lenses!?

Nate







PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have one of these 50/1.2 Canons, but it doesn't have this problem.
Yes it could certainly be separating balsam. It doesn't look like the edge of a lubricant haze. But who knows whats been done to this thing.
The best way to check is to open the thing and see if it is the edge of a deposited film.
It doesn't look as if it would have any significant effect on results.


PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
I have one of these 50/1.2 Canons, but it doesn't have this problem.
Yes it could certainly be separating balsam. It doesn't look like the edge of a lubricant haze. But who knows whats been done to this thing.
The best way to check is to open the thing and see if it is the edge of a deposited film.
It doesn't look as if it would have any significant effect on results.


I ended up returning the lens out of fear it was separation. I'll just have to take the hit and get a serviced copy on eBay and pay more. I didn't get enough responses here. Thanks for yours, Luisa


PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It does look like it could be separation, there are 2 doublets in this lens, I would only consider keeping it if it was a very good deal, otherwise I'd return it and find one with no issues.


PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
talkingtree wrote:
luisalegria wrote:
I have one of these 50/1.2 Canons, but it doesn't have this problem.
Yes it could certainly be separating balsam. It doesn't look like the edge of a lubricant haze. But who knows whats been done to this thing.
The best way to check is to open the thing and see if it is the edge of a deposited film.
It doesn't look as if it would have any significant effect on results.


I ended up returning the lens out of fear it was separation. I'll just have to take the hit and get a serviced copy on eBay and pay more. I didn't get enough responses here. Thanks for yours, Luisa

You only asked the question less than two hours ago so you can hardly expect a huge response yet.
This forum is composed of interested lens enthusiasts, but it is not an online 24 hours a day counselling service.
Give it time if you ask a question and members will respond when and if they can.
Happy snaps
Tom


PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is not real separation but it us a glue problem for sure. I've seen this issue in many sigma ys series lenses.
It is kind of lighter separation variant. It does effect image quality bit not significantly. This one does not produces
usual rainbow and is not apparent in bokeh.


PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
talkingtree wrote:
luisalegria wrote:
I have one of these 50/1.2 Canons, but it doesn't have this problem.
Yes it could certainly be separating balsam. It doesn't look like the edge of a lubricant haze. But who knows whats been done to this thing.
The best way to check is to open the thing and see if it is the edge of a deposited film.
It doesn't look as if it would have any significant effect on results.


I ended up returning the lens out of fear it was separation. I'll just have to take the hit and get a serviced copy on eBay and pay more. I didn't get enough responses here. Thanks for yours, Luisa

You only asked the question less than two hours ago so you can hardly expect a huge response yet.
This forum is composed of interested lens enthusiasts, but it is not an online 24 hours a day counselling service.
Give it time if you ask a question and members will respond when and if they can.
Happy snaps
Tom


I think it was a safe bet to return the lens despite the immediate lack of responses. I totally get that, I just decided to return the lens asap. I'm quickly realizing that the hunt for a good copy of this lens can take some time but I think it's worth it because I love the signature look. I want to find a mint copy at a reasonable price of around $500 or $600 dollars. I don't mind cleaning the lens and haze out every year, and I know this lens has that reputation. If you ask me, I think this lens has a better signature look in the hands of creative photographers that surpasses the Minolta 58mm F1.2s and the Tomioka branded F1.2s. I compared it to my Revuenon 55mm F1.2 and it looks sharper wide open to me!

Nate


PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
It is not real separation but it us a glue problem for sure. I've seen this issue in many sigma ys series lenses.
It is kind of lighter separation variant. It does effect image quality bit not significantly. This one does not produces
usual rainbow and is not apparent in bokeh.


That's what I needed to hear. Now I don't regret sending off for a return! I will keep hunting for a solid copy of this lens and once I get it I will not be selling! Wink


PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not sure, but I remembered seeing some strange bokeh from such a lens (it turned out to be the f/0.95 version) and wondering what may have caused this, now I think that one may have the same problem, look especially at the bokeh in the last picture: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1471002/1#13890557


PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Koen Nhz wrote:
I'm not sure, but I remembered seeing some strange bokeh from such a lens (it turned out to be the f/0.95 version) and wondering what may have caused this, now I think that one may have the same problem, look especially at the bokeh in the last picture: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1471002/1#13890557


Yep, doublet separation. The Minolta 58/1.2 which I briefly owned had a much worse and obvious case! OP dodged a bullet.


PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by RTI on Wed May 10, 2017 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A very clean, even separation. I've often wondered, in cases like this, if one were to wick naphtha or a very light machine oil into the gaps, if this separation line would disappear. Anybody ever tried this?


PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wouldn't use oil on a doublet, it could make things worse based on a few threads regarding separation, the oil did seem to hide the separation, but the oil could propagate the separation, and you'll never get that oil out until you completely separate the optics.
Haze should stop being a problem after the old grease is cleaned out and relubed.
I do remember coming across a few sites that offered recementing of doublets, I would look into that if the lens is worth it.
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