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Help me chose replacement for NEX-3
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:38 pm    Post subject: Help me chose replacement for NEX-3 Reply with quote
Sadly, my beloved and much used NEX-3 has bitten the dust.

So, I need a replacement. I would like to upgrade the IQ rather than just buy something with equivalent IQ. Not interested in M4/3, sensor is too small, IQ is not an improvement, aspect ratio is wrong etc.

I have used the Samsung NX200, really liked the IQ of the 20mp sensor but the camera is really slow, the screen is fixed and it's very hard to focus with manual lenses.

These are essential features:

Tripod mount socket in line with lens axis
Articulated/tilting screen
Focus peaking and good focus assist magnify

These are desirable features:

Improved IQ over 14mp NEX-3
Good performance when shooting RAW

So what are my options?

The Fuji X series with 16mp X-Trans sensor should be an improvement in IQ, but I think they have fixed screens, and I'm not sure about the focus assist/magnify.

Recent Samsung NX have tilting screens and I think 5x/8x focus magnify, but no focus peaking and the RAW performance is still slow I think.

Ricoh GXR probably isn't an improvement in IQ but has excellent focus peaking and magnify assist.

There are loads of NEX models, I find them confusing, they have articulated screens, good focus peaking and magnify assist. Are the 16mp model a noticeable improvement in IQ over the older 14mp ones or should I be looking at a 20mp model if I want improved IQ?


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd think your best bet performance / price ratio wise are successors to your NEX3, also because most likely you already own adapters that you can continue to use.

- Though I certaily would not say that the GXR M module isn't an improvement in IQ, even though it is noisier I prefer it's IQ over that of my NEX5N. It's 12MP are without AA filter, a GXR M RAW file is bigger than a RAW file of my 16MP NEX5N and the image looks as detailed, maybe even a bit more so. If using rangefinder glass imo it still defines the state of the art, even today. However it's LCD doesn't tilt.

Decide if you want to treat yourself to one that offers an EVF or if you are happy to continue with one that doesn't. If the later a NEX3N will be the cheapest, if the earlier NEX6 has integrated EVF, NEXF3, NEX5N/5R/5T have optional EVF.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excellent tips, thanks. The only RF glass I have is some Russian M39 lenses and some Zeiss Contax Sonnars, so not a huge issue. The GXR sounds nice to use with the M39 glass though.

It looks like a 16mp NEX is the ticket for me. An EVF is not a dealbreaker, I got so used to not having one on my NEX-3.

I guess I'll have to study the NEX model range.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
the NEX-F3... you will probably get it cheap and the 16MP sensor is a big improvement. It's not just the 2 additinal MP.. High Iso is much better, I would say IQ is the same as for NEX-6. Oh and it's the only NEX-3 which can use the external viewfinder.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Either F3 or a 5N or a 6 if you want better control and evf.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheers guys. I was just wondering if the 16mp sensor was a worthwhile improvement over the 14mp because secondhand 14mp NEX-3 and NEX-5 are so cheap.

If the 16mp is better, I'll go for that, although high ISO is not important to me, I never used anything other than 200 and 400 on my NEX-3, maybe used 800 two or three times.

How is the NEX-C3? I see plenty of those cheap.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian, i went from the NEX 3 to the Nex7 and the 7 is a great camera, the 6 and the 6000 are also briliant, i would not discount the EVF, and on the 7 it really makes the camera great.
24mpx on the 7 is very good and has excellent iso range, etc


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Cheers guys. I was just wondering if the 16mp sensor was a worthwhile improvement over the 14mp because secondhand 14mp NEX-3 and NEX-5 are so cheap.

If the 16mp is better, I'll go for that, although high ISO is not important to me, I never used anything other than 200 and 400 on my NEX-3, maybe used 800 two or three times.

How is the NEX-C3? I see plenty of those cheap.


the C3 was, after NEX3 and NEX5, the third NEX model released. It is yet smaller again but imo doesn't feel as well in the hands, it's grip is more shallow.

as mentioned before if no EVF required the cheapest one should be the 3N with 16MP, or the later model A5000 with 20 MP, both have integrated flash
If you do go for an EVF, integrated EVF is found on NEX6 and NEX7, both 24MP, the NEX6 less noisy, NEX7 in return most sofisticated wheels / buttons, but many prefer the later NEX6, both have integrated flash. Both have more buttons / better access to setting than the models that take an accessory EVF which are:
the 16 MP models F3, 5N, 5N and 5R. The 5 line has the additional draw back that it doesn't have an integrated flash, it is either mounting the EVF 'or' the flash. The 5N has best touchscreen, the 5R and 5T have Wifi. There are other small differences, 5N and 5T have 'sweep panorama', 5R doesn't, LCD of 5N doesn't go up 180 degrees, that of the 2 successor do..asf..The F3 has port for the optional EVF ( which I personally prefer to the fixed one in the NEX6 and NEX7 for being moveable ) 'and' had an integrated flash.

so in short, if not EVF is required I'd go for ( and possibly the cheapest solutions should be ) the 3N, if integrated EVF the NEX6 and if optional EVF the NEXF3, which technically is preferable over the 5 line for it's integrated flash, it feels a bit like a small brick though, it's nody is higher which is nice, but it's grip is less deep than those of the 5 line..

here a side by side comparison of all the NEX models, sorted left to right by date:
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_nex3&products=sony_nex5&products=sony_nexc3&products=sony_nex5n&products=sony_nex7&products=sony_nexf3&products=sony_nex5r&products=sony_nex6&products=sony_nex5t&products=sony_a3000&products=sony_a5000&products=sony_a6000&sortDir=ascending

I also included the A3000, an amazingly cheap E mount camera in a bigger SLR like body, great IQ 20 MP sensor, but cheapish body with low res. LCD and EVF. A5000 has same 20 MP sensor but in a small NEX body similar to 3N, that is integrated flash but no EVF nor port for one.

you can make your own selection:
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/cameras?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu

and once you click on a single model, look for the link that says 'review'


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was very happy with my NEX5 and I'd be still using it but the buttons on the back have stopped working. I need to send it for repair, the sensor etc is still OK.
But I needed a camera in a hurry and managed to get the Sony A6000, which is excellent. It's not a cheap camera, but I think it might well be the best value in its price range. I'm very happy with it, the NEX got better!


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
oh, and I fogot the mention, the big advantage of the latest, the A6000, is said, and reports seem to confirm, a much improved autofocus, great camera Lloydy, congrats!

btw. have you tried aplying a 'contact spray' to the buttons of your NEX5? I had contacts of wheels starting to fail on me and the contact spray did the thing


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for all the tips. I've sort of narrowed things down. I don't care about an EVF.

A 16mp NEX would be good, allow me to use all my adapters and lenses.

The A3000 would be ideal, that 20mp sensor is impressive. However, the camera itself is flimsy and the dealbreaker is the low res evf and screen.

But right now, the leading choice is a Samsung NX1000. The 20mp sensor is significantly better than the 14mp one of my old NEX-3 and it has a superb 921k dot AMOLED screen. The two downsides are the screen is fixed and it doesn't have focus peaking. However it does have x8 magnify and it will shoot a 3-shot AEB sequence with upto +- 3 stops, which makes it great for HDR and I do a lot of HDR.

The big plus point for the NX1000 is that I can buy one for75ukp secondhand.

I have adapters for Konica AR, Minolta MD and M42.

The decision I have to make now is do I grab a dirt cheap NX1000 or spend significantly more on a NEX.

Decisions, decisions....


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd go with what Lloydy said, I've seen his camera and its a great little piece of kit. More solid than the NEX3 and with a built in EVF and flash. You have the adapters.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:

as mentioned before if no EVF required the cheapest one should be the 3N with 16MP


The 3N isn't cheaper than the F3 and it's the smallest NEX-3 from all generations. It's only for someone with really small hands.. my hands are normals size and I did feel very uncomfortable usig the 3N.

One more thing about NEX-3 models vs. every other NEX.. with a NEX-3, C3, F3 or 3N you can't use a remote. If this is important.. get a NEX-5 or bigger model.


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tedat wrote:
kuuan wrote:

as mentioned before if no EVF required the cheapest one should be the 3N with 16MP


The 3N isn't cheaper than the F3 and it's the smallest NEX-3 from all generations. It's only for someone with really small hands.. my hands are normals size and I did feel very uncomfortable usig the 3N..


oh, if so I wouldn't hesitate to take the F3, well, me anyway, for me the EVF is a must, would fancy the built in flash that I miss on my 5N
Ian btw. the F3 has quite a nifty in-camera HDR mode: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-nex-f3/5
the Samsung NX1000 for 75ukp is a great deal hard to pass for sure, don't know, can't tell much about the Samsungs though


PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The a6000 is over 500 quid. If I were to spend that much I think I'd go for a secondhand a850 or a900, full frame and I can use my collection of Minolta AF lenses.

The F3 sounds interesting, but I do hate the tiny size of NEX and NX bodies.

I hate trying to make these decisions....

There's something wrong with women to actually enjoy shopping!


PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have been where you are and its uncomfortable sitting on the fence. Price dictates my final decision when it comes to buying camera gear.I can learn all I want but in the end it's a stone cold decision. I wish you luck in finding a camera to fit your needs.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The F3 sounds interesting, but I do hate the tiny size of NEX and NX bodies.


the F3 is the biggest NEX-3.. also bigger than the NEX-5 series and close to the size from a NEX-6. If you don't need the remote capability, you should be very happy with this camera. On german ebay I see them often enough selling for 100-120 Euro.. not much more expensive than a NX1000.

Oh and if you go for Samsung.. shouldn't be the NX20 the better choice for you then? Sure it's more expensive (still a lot cheaper than a Sony A6000), but also a lot bigger.. has also a 20MP sensor but with less noise.

If you look close enough you may find a deal like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201096904954

Last edited by Tedat on Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was thinking about the NEX7 and possibly getting one while on holiday in America, hopefully cheaper. But the NEX5 died on the Thursday and we were flying on Saturday. Frantic googling led me to the decision to buy the best available NEX / A Series Sony in this country the next day, and Jessops had a A6000 in stock. So it wasn't the first choice, but I think it turned out to be a very good choice.
I didn't think I needed the EVF, I was used to the NEX5 without it. But once I started to use it in bright sunshine I soon realised how useful it is.

SLR Hut have them listed at £459-95 which is £200 less than I paid just over two months ago.

http://slrhut.co.uk/product/ID1562C68/google?mkwid=lSxJ9ZFk&pcrid=40111111076&gclid=CPDvgaSJn8ACFY_MtAodSHgAeA


PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ian, you've had your camera what 3 -4 years? Under UK consumer law you could have redress from Sony.

In a nutshell:

In UK you have a statutory 1 year warranty from the retailer. i.e. if there is a problem take it back to the shop, less than six months old they offer a replacement or refund. over six months they send it to be looked at then offer refund or replacement. Between 1 and 5 years (6 years in Scotland) after the warranty has run out. You contact the manufacturer/importer i.e. Sony first, and tell them the problem. They'll ask you to send it to them (at your own cost) and if the camera is at fault they are obliged in law to replace it. This in reality would probably be a service/exchange model , but you may get a voucher for a new one. At worst you would get a pro rata refund i.e purchase price less 20% for year 1, less 40% for year two and so on.

Not only cameras are covered this way, I helped a colleague get a new washing machine, hers was almost six years old when it caught fire and damaged her kitchen. Hoover replaced the machine but also took care of the collateral damage - ie. fixed the kitchen for her.

Dont give up hope, give it a try - unless you've broken it.

Let me know what you think and how you get on.
Phil


PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting. The fault is that the coating on the sensor has worn off so I get massive flare and no contrast.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Phil recommended that route to me as well, and today I sorted out the paperwork for my NEX5 - it's 29 months old - ready to have a word with Sony. I also did a google for problems with NEX buttons and controls; one thing that someone was told to try was a 'soft reboot' of the camera. So I tried doing just that. Two soft reboots and my NEX5 seems to be working again. I'll give it a good workout over the next few days and see if the problems return.

Soft reboot - Remove the Battery. Turn the camera ON and hold down the shutter button - I don't think the time is critical but 20 to 30 seconds should suffice. Turn OFF. Reinsert the Battery. Turn ON

Apparently clearing static and letting the capacitor discharge is a good thing. I did it twice and held the button for probably 45 seconds. The first time seemed to clear the problem with the buttons and controls but it returned after about 20 shots, did it a second time ang got 160+ shots with no problems, then the battery went flat.
Perhaps the static build up affects the circuitry?


PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanksfor all the advice everyone.

I have bought a secondhand Sony a850 cheap with only 21k actuations. 24mp FF. Should be fun. Smile


PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congrats on your bargain Ian. I'd still mention the NEX3 to Sony. You havent anything to lose.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congrats!!


PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
Congrats on your bargain Ian. I'd still mention the NEX3 to Sony. You havent anything to lose.


I shall. What is the best way to approach it - send them an email?
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