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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: HELIOS 44-2 malfunction |
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Jesito wrote:
_________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3
Last edited by Jesito on Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
Thanks!!!!
I see the problem. Due to the hit on the lens, I cannot move (I cannot even see) the red dot on the outer ring!!!, so my lens is faulty...
This ends with my expectations. Anyway I've got a nice disassembling manual .
Since I love the sharpness of this lens, and the prices are not too high in eBay, I'll go for a bid for a new one.
I've seen several different Helios 44 (44-2, 44-3M, 44-4, 44-M5 and 44-M6).
Do you think it would be worth to invest in one of the new ones, or go for a 44-2 and will keep the old one as a spare parts source.?.
Thanks a lot.
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Jes, our member Michael (Borges) is the resident expert on Helios 44 lenses, you should really take his advice.
It's not really essential to have the red dot on the barrel - I leave the outer ring set to f16 all the time and use just the inner ring, not to stop down the light in the normal way, but as a sharpness and bokeh control. In Av mode the camera adjusts the shutter speed to get the same EV for every shot.
I've got 3 different 44's. A 44-2, a 44M and a 44M-4, all made by different factories and slightly different designs. Only the 44-2 is a preset, the other two have the usual M42 push pin, but only the 44M has an Auto-Manual switch, so with the 44M-4 you need an adapter with the flange that keeps the pin pressed in. They're all pretty similar optically - flary and soft at f2 but becoming very sharp at f4+. Of the three I like using the preset best for the way it operates, as I outlined above. If your lens is OK optically I think I'd be inclined to keep it and use it as I described, then you can save your money for a Zeiss Pancolar
PS I think you've caught the GAS bug! |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
Hi Peter,
peterqd wrote: |
Jes, our member Michael (Borges) is the resident expert on Helios 44 lenses, you should really take his advice.
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Thanks, nice to know!. I'll contact him, for sure.
peterqd wrote: |
It's not really essential to have the red dot on the barrel - I leave the outer ring set to f16 all the time and use just the inner ring, not to stop down the light in the normal way, but as a sharpness and bokeh control. In Av mode the camera adjusts the shutter speed to get the same EV for every shot. |
That means not to know the diaphragm value in the future... I like to keep the EXIF data on the pictures, but I think I could live without knowing the aperture, if the lens is worth to be used.
peterqd wrote: |
I've got 3 different 44's. A 44-2, a 44M and a 44M-4, all made by different factories and slightly different designs. Only the 44-2 is a preset, the other two have the usual M42 push pin, but only the 44M has an Auto-Manual switch, so with the 44M-4 you need an adapter with the flange that keeps the pin pressed in. They're all pretty similar optically - flary and soft at f2 but becoming very sharp at f4+. Of the three I like using the preset best for the way it operates, as I outlined above. If your lens is OK optically I think I'd be inclined to keep it and use it as I described, then you can save your money for a Zeiss Pancolar
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Big truth, you're right. I'm looking to some Leica lens that are very expensive, so saving is always a good policy
peterqd wrote: |
PS I think you've caught the GAS bug! |
Don't know what GAS is, but if it is some kind of disease facing the use of manual lenses on digital SLRs, yes, I'm severely infected...
Thanks for your (always) kind advice.
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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Borges
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Moers, Germany
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Borges wrote:
Hi Jesito,
if you have a good one, keep it.
These are the resolutions of the different types of Helios 44 from the history site of the former KMZ Scientific and technical center: http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html
Quote: |
Гелиос-44 -- 35/14 линий/мм
Гелиос-44-2 -- 38/20 линий/мм
Гелиос-44-7 -- 36/17 линий/мм
Гелиос-44М-4 -- 38/19 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-4 -- 41/20 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44K-4 -- 42/21 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-5 -- 41/20 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-6 -- 45/25 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-7 -- 50/30 линий/мм |
Regarding these values alone the choice has to go for some of the new ones. But I for myself prefer the 44-2. There is a drawback using the 44M-4 and the successors: no preset aperture. These lenses are automatic only. So you have to use an adapter with an inner ring to press the aperture pin permanently or you have to open the lens and fix the lever. And after this you can only focus with working aperture and not full open. Or you can focus with open aperture and have to count the clicks until you reach desired aperture value before release He, this is a new technical term: aperture-choice by ear
On the other side you have to take much more care about the light because the old types have no multi-coating.
There are two alternatives: with a 44M you can focus full open and switch to manual afterward. Or you can look for a MC 44-3 from MMZ/Belomo. Mechanically a little bit different (rear focusing), multicoated and pure manual. But the reputation of this production line is not so good.
Michael _________________ list of lenses:
Helios 44 (many different versions), Jupiter-9 , Jupiter 21M, Jupiter 37AM, Mir-1W, Mir-1V, Mir-10A, Mir-47M, Zenitar Fisheye, Tair 11-2, Industar 50-2 and a few more ...
Our wedding photography blog:
http://www.yvonne-zemke.de/blog/
Websites:
http://www.yvonne-zemke.de
http://www.dearjohn.de |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
Borges wrote: |
Hi Jesito,
if you have a good one, keep it.
These are the resolutions of the different types of Helios 44 from the history site of the former KMZ Scientific and technical center: http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html
Quote: |
Гелиос-44 -- 35/14 линий/мм
Гелиос-44-2 -- 38/20 линий/мм
Гелиос-44-7 -- 36/17 линий/мм
Гелиос-44М-4 -- 38/19 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-4 -- 41/20 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44K-4 -- 42/21 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-5 -- 41/20 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-6 -- 45/25 линий/мм
MC Гелиос-44М-7 -- 50/30 линий/мм |
Regarding these values alone the choice has to go for some of the new ones. But I for myself prefer the 44-2. There is a drawback using the 44M-4 and the successors: no preset aperture. These lenses are automatic only. So you have to use an adapter with an inner ring to press the aperture pin permanently or you have to open the lens and fix the lever. And after this you can only focus with working aperture and not full open. Or you can focus with open aperture and have to count the clicks until you reach desired aperture value before release He, this is a new technical term: aperture-choice by ear
On the other side you have to take much more care about the light because the old types have no multi-coating.
There are two alternatives: with a 44M you can focus full open and switch to manual afterward. Or you can look for a MC 44-3 from MMZ/Belomo. Mechanically a little bit different (rear focusing), multicoated and pure manual. But the reputation of this production line is not so good.
Michael |
Thanks a lot, Michael, I'll follow your (and Peter's) advice and keep my "locked" lens... I'll try some shots to see if it's working properly after all my interferences...
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Jesito wrote: |
peterqd wrote: |
I think you've caught the GAS bug! |
Don't know what GAS is, but if it is some kind of disease facing the use of manual lenses on digital SLRs, yes, I'm severely infected...
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@ Jesito: GAS stands for Gear Acquisition Syndrome, I think it was Carsten who thought of that name. It's highly infectious - nearly everybody here has caught it. Poor souls, there's no known cure.
@ Borges: Thank you for the information Michael. I like the 44-2 best too, and interestingly it seems to have better resolution than the 44-M4 (not MC), especially at wide apertures. That's only my impression - not from tests. |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
Jesito wrote: |
peterqd wrote: |
I think you've caught the GAS bug! |
Don't know what GAS is, but if it is some kind of disease facing the use of manual lenses on digital SLRs, yes, I'm severely infected...
|
@ Jesito: GAS stands for Gear Acquisition Syndrome, I think it was Carsten who thought of that name. It's highly infectious - nearly everybody here has caught it. Poor souls, there's no known cure.
@ Borges: Thank you for the information Michael. I like the 44-2 best too, and interestingly it seems to have better resolution than the 44-M4 (not MC), especially at wide apertures. That's only my impression - not from tests. |
Peter, I got the disease, for sure!!... I spend most of the day looking at eBay and tracking MF lenses...
On the other hand, any of you know where to buy tools to do the lenses maintenance?.
Thanks!
Best regards,
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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