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Frustrating Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 135 f2.5 problem?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:02 am    Post subject: Frustrating Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 135 f2.5 problem? Reply with quote

Hi,
Wondering if the Asahi Takumar experts here can shed some light and answers on a problem I ran into yesterday.
The suspect is a Super-Multi-coated Takumar 135mm f/2.5 telephoto prime.
I just got it yesterday and was eager to try it on my a6000. I have two M42 adapters that I've been using with my M42 lenses.

Yashicas, and 3 Takumars...Super and Super-MC, plus a few others.

The lens was in fine condition. Upon installing the adapter, it got tighter but wasn't seated. So, with fool-hardy impatience, I gave it a bit of torque and screwed it down. Went to try it and the aperture ring wouldn't turn. Backing out the adapter, the ring would turn normally.
Tried again and no go. That's when I noticed the metal tab that is connected to the aperture was jammed against the adapter's flange!

Took the adapter off to find the tab had been bent inward by the flange! UGH! At least I think it did. And assume it didn't come this way from Asahi. BUT, none of my other Takumars experienced this clearance issue. They all cleared the flange....
a Super Tak 55 f/1.8, Super-MC Tak 150 f/4 and 200 f/4. So in the back of my mind, I didn't suspect I was going to have this fitment issue.

The 135mm f/2.5 seems to have the tab further out near the threads. Thus, smashing into the adapter flange. I checked it against both adapters, and the tab won't clear either. (One generic and one Big-Is).

I don't dare to try to bend it back straight, in case it weakens and snaps off. It doesn't seem to affect the lens operation. But I can't use it with my current adapters.

The attached pics show the tab in a slight S shape. And I'm assuming it was my doing.

Has anyone else ran into this issue with this lens while adapting it to a non-native mount?
Frustrating that I damaged the lens when I was told the flanged adapter is the proper one.
Can I expect to have this happen with other Takumars?





PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm,
Seems like a very specific problem here. I have tried a copy of this lens though never bought one, but not, as far as I can recall, a version with the tab, which were meant for the later Spotmatics.

I suggest you have a look at dremeling out the flange on your adapters, maybe you can increase the diameter so it clears the tab.
Or get an adapter without a flange, you don't need one for this lens as it has an M/A switch.

The S-shape looks too neat to be the result of your forcing. I think it may have come like this and your forcing hasn't done anything but jam it while the adapter is on. Leave it alone is my suggestion.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't find a high res pic of the back of this lens to verify one way or the other.
Hopefully a Takumar owner of this lens can confirm.

I thought about grinding one of the adapters to mate with this lens. But you're right, a flangeless version will work fine here.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is sadly a common issue with the S-M-C lenses, the adapter's flange is too narrow of a diameter, get a round file and remove some of the material to keep it from binding.
To anyone that is forced to do this, they should inform the adapters seller that it needs a manufacturing design change so that this issue will not happen again in the future.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need an adapter without flange. FYI, the Mamiya SX and Fuji EBC M42 lenses need a special adapter if you don't want to modify your lens.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My version II lens has this s-curve.

+1 Use no-flange adapter here.

General criteria for selecting M42 adapter flanged or not is to ask does lens have Auto/Man diaphragm switch? -- lens without switch needs adapter with flange so diaphragm will operate via aperture ring.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same problem with one of my SMC.
You can buy an adapter without flange ( kiwi) or with a removable one . You set offcourse the lens on man.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That happens to all Taks with large diameter rear element. Ditto on flangeless adapter.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
That happens to all Taks with large diameter rear element. Ditto on flangeless adapter.


Thanks!
That's good to know! I have another on its way. So will have get another adapter. Damn! I just bought the Big-Is for its tripod mount to handle the long Taks.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
My version II lens has this s-curve.

+1 Use no-flange adapter here.

General criteria for selecting M42 adapter flanged or not is to ask does lens have Auto/Man diaphragm switch? -- lens without switch needs adapter with flange so diaphragm will operate via aperture ring.


Oh that's a relief!

I bought the flanged model for my Yashicas w/o switches. And the previous Taks went on like it was made for them too.

Now I know better to assume! Thanks!


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that offset on the lever has been caused by screwing it into the adapter, that kind od bend needs a press in manufacturing.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
That happens to all Taks with large diameter rear element. Ditto on flangeless adapter.


Um, actually only S-M-C Takumars (except long telephotos) and a very few Super-Takumars manufactured close to when S-M-C lenses were debuted, have the aperture coupling lever...


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Gardener wrote:
That happens to all Taks with large diameter rear element. Ditto on flangeless adapter.


Um, actually only S-M-C Takumars (except long telephotos) and a very few Super-Takumars manufactured close to when S-M-C lenses were debuted, have the aperture coupling lever...


Well, duh, obviously the lenses without it don't have an issue.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
Gardener wrote:
That happens to all Taks with large diameter rear element. Ditto on flangeless adapter.


Um, actually only S-M-C Takumars (except long telephotos) and a very few Super-Takumars manufactured close to when S-M-C lenses were debuted, have the aperture coupling lever...


Well, duh, obviously the lenses without it don't have an issue.


How is it obvious from "That happens to all Taks with large diameter rear element" that non-S-M-C Taks (and the long telephoto S-M-C) have no levers and thus no problem?


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the beginning the conversation was exclusively about lenses with coupling lever. That was obvious to me. If you wanted catch me on inconsistency that bad you should have gone with SMC Macro-Tak 50/4. Small diameter rear element, lever rubs on the flange. That's how I would have gone about it.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys! I don't want to see my plea for help turn into hard feelings for all who answered my call.
I appreciate all the responses, thank you!

The pertinent fact to be extracted from all this is one can't assume all the Taks will simply be compatible with said adapters.

Aside:
Contacted Big_Is the manufacturer/seller....although they seem to advertise a model w/ two threaded inserts flanged/non-flanged...they won't sell me the non-flanged insert.
:-/

In studying these M42 adapters, instead of having to machine and inventory two models....why hasn't anyone simply made only one model with a threaded insert w/o flange, and have the flange separate like a large flat washer?? It would seat beneath the insert.
Wish to remove the flange? Undo the three set screws, remove it and re-install the threaded insert. Done!

Even the machining becomes simpler and cheaper! Is any company out there listening?!


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have such M42 adapters. There are hundreds M42 adapters.
The issue with some SMC lenses is not a great deal. Mamiya SX are really tricky to adapt . You have to remove the pin for exposure but the aperture ring is still too wide for many adapters.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if I missed some info in earlier posts.

Your Takumar has a manual-auto switch. There is a tiny switch at the rear near the thread, it looks like a pin/dot. This tiny pin must be pressed down in order to change the switch manual-auto.

When it is mounted on the camera, this pin is always pressed down, and you can change the mode of the lens.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:33 pm    Post subject: memetph Reply with quote

memetpf56


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

memetph wrote:
I have such M42 adapters. There are hundreds M42 adapters.
The issue with some SMC lenses is not a great deal. Mamiya SX are really tricky to adapt . You have to remove the pin for exposure but the aperture ring is still too wide for many adapters.


Good to know....I am considering a Mamiya SX. Thanks for the heads up!


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hoanpham wrote:
Not sure if I missed some info in earlier posts.

Your Takumar has a manual-auto switch. There is a tiny switch at the rear near the thread, it looks like a pin/dot. This tiny pin must be pressed down in order to change the switch manual-auto.

When it is mounted on the camera, this pin is always pressed down, and you can change the mode of the lens.


Yes, fortunately, the Taks have the lever. But the issue was the type of adapter w/ flange. Flange jams and aperture can't be changed.
So the flangeless adapter is the easiest solution for the Taks.

Just discovered this will happen with a 300mm f/4 S-M-C Takumar as well. :-\
These two lenses will have to sit on the shelf for a while.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the SMC Tak it is enough to have an adapter without flange (or removable).
For the Mamiya SX, the diameter of the adapter has to be small enough so that the aperture ring can lap slightly over it .


PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

memetph wrote:
For the SMC Tak it is enough to have an adapter without flange (or removable).
For the Mamiya SX, the diameter of the adapter has to be small enough so that the aperture ring can lap slightly over it .


+1 when the lens is screwed fully on the lens aperture ring is jammed against adapter; cannot be turned easily. Temporary fix (at best) is to slightly unscrew lens, set aperture, screw on again.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had that problem with my Kalejnar 2.8/100. I've recently purchased several M42 to NEX adapters with no inside flange from RainbowImaging @ $6.59 with free shipping in the US. Got here in two days. Works just fine.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WNG555 wrote:

In studying these M42 adapters, instead of having to machine and inventory two models....why hasn't anyone simply made only one model with a threaded insert w/o flange, and have the flange separate like a large flat washer?? It would seat beneath the insert.
Wish to remove the flange? Undo the three set screws, remove it and re-install the threaded insert. Done!

Even the machining becomes simpler and cheaper! Is any company out there listening?!


I think that is how most M42 adapters are made — all the ones I have from Fotasy and Fotodiox are made that way.

Please take another look. The adapters you already have might already be what you need.