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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Posts: 351
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 Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:13 am Post subject: Front glass of Jupiter-9 |
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Langstrum wrote:
I have an M39 Jupiter-9 that has a very bad front glass with thousand of cleaning marks and some of them are quite deep. Photos taken by this lens is very soft and glowing at f/2 to f/4. I took out the front glass and tried to clean, and found out that only that glass is the problem, the rest of the lens is very good. Just by cleaning that glass, now the images look better, so I want to fix the lens by finding a broken Jupiter-9 with intact front glass for replacement.
My question is: can I use the front glass of other Jupiter-9 versions, such as the ones for Kiev cameras, for this one? These designs may be mainly different in the rear part, am I wrong?
I asked that because normally these versions are cheaper, so I even can buy a working one for fixing my lens.
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Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 9029
Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
Just bookmarking this, as I am curious to see what the answers are. 
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7495
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:51 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
A copy made in the same factory with close serial number should do. It may be possible to take out the whole optical part from a Keiv and put it into a M39 copy but I am not sure.
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2195
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
Front glass should be easily swap-able. I've done it with a few Helios 44 versions before.
The entire optical barrel should be identical in most cases too. I had one J9 from a kiev rangefinder and in screws right into the m39 SLR helical. It doesn't match perfectly because the aperture ring construction is different but it works. The only one that is not compatible is the J9 for Kiev 10/15. The barrel is a very different construction. The front element still might work though. |
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
| themoleman342 wrote: |
Front glass should be easily swap-able. I've done it with a few Helios 44 versions before.
The entire optical barrel should be identical in most cases too. I had one J9 from a kiev rangefinder and in screws right into the m39 SLR helical. It doesn't match perfectly because the aperture ring construction is different but it works. The only one that is not compatible is the J9 for Kiev 10/15. The barrel is a very different construction. The front element still might work though. |
That's what I need to know, thank you very much, and thank you mo and calvin83 to join this thread
When I find a good one and do the swapping, I will post photos here 
_________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2195
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
It's probably going to be difficult getting a clean scratch-free front element super cheap.
I found this guy who seems to be parting a J9 out:
Click here to see on Ebay
Click here to see on Ebay
Maybe it's worth sending him a message? |
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
| themoleman342 wrote: |
It's probably going to be difficult getting a clean scratch-free front element super cheap.
I found this guy who seems to be parting a J9 out:
Click here to see on Ebay
Click here to see on Ebay
Maybe it's worth sending him a message? |
Thank you for your information. I know this guy, he sold me the early Helios 44 #0006980 and also has some very rare, old lenses. I found the first link before but didn't ask him about the rest of the lens. I'm sending a message to ask him now. What you say is right, I can't find any replacement that is cheap enough for the last several days 
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Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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ZoneV
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 1648
Location: Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:37 am Post subject: |
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ZoneV wrote:
Only as a side note:
I read in an old Hasselblad forum magazine a interview with I think a Zeiss lens designer. There was something about lens manufacturing: Before CNC machining the lenses, it was common to pair lenses, so for a bit crude example take a lens with a bit more thickness and pair it with one witch is a bit too short. Or at least say this lens is too long, so we need a shorter shim between these lens groups.
This is likely the reason why we sometimes find notices on the border of lenses when we disassemble lenses.
So it could be that the front lens has some tolerances which where compensated with another lens, or a shim in the lens.
Likely this does not extreme harm to the image quality, but it could make the lens inferior to other lenses from the same type.
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7495
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:30 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Different batches may have slightly different glass and coating. This is why I suggest transfer the entire optical barrel but not only the front element.
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The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
| ZoneV wrote: |
Only as a side note:
I read in an old Hasselblad forum magazine a interview with I think a Zeiss lens designer. There was something about lens manufacturing: Before CNC machining the lenses, it was common to pair lenses, so for a bit crude example take a lens with a bit more thickness and pair it with one witch is a bit too short. Or at least say this lens is too long, so we need a shorter shim between these lens groups.
This is likely the reason why we sometimes find notices on the border of lenses when we disassemble lenses.
So it could be that the front lens has some tolerances which where compensated with another lens, or a shim in the lens.
Likely this does not extreme harm to the image quality, but it could make the lens inferior to other lenses from the same type. |
Wow, so that's why it's there! I wondered the same thing when I disassembled some lenses, it's very common to have a small ring on the border, and I thought it's just a kind of spacer to separate the elements.
| calvin83 wrote: |
| Different batches may have slightly different glass and coating. This is why I suggest transfer the entire optical barrel but not only the front element. |
I agree with you, but I only can do it if I'm lucky enough to find a good replacement.
I contacted one seller, he agreed to help me finding the front element, but this part added $30-$40 to the total value of my lens, which is equal to the price of a good copy already. If I have to change the whole block, maybe it's better to just purchasing another lens.
I hope that the difference is not significant
_________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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