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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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 Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject: From EV To dynamic range |
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alaios wrote:
Hi all,
my nex-f3 digital camera when I am shooting shows me in a scale
that goes from -3 to +3 what is the average I get in terms of exposure with the specific settings.
I wonder: why I Should interpret these number?
Does this mean that my camera has a latitude of 6 Evs in total (from -3 to +3)?
I have read somewhere (I think Dxo Marks) that my camera has a dynamic range for 12 (well I guess the exact number is needed for my question). How the Evs I mentioned above are translated to the achieved dynamic range?
I would like to thank you in advance for your help
Regards
Alex |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Posts: 1196
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
The EV range has nothing to do with dynamic range. If the EV range is from -3 EV to +3 it is because the manufacturer of the camera thought this range is sufficient for most situations that a photographer will encounter in practice.
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10532
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Meter range is 6 stops.
Meter shows only 6-stop segment of camera's 12-stop dynamic range.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
These are to allow for exposure adjustments in certain lighting conditions. You have similar on your Minolta round the ASA dial.
If I am photographing an objrct against a white background, the camera will 'average out' all it sees and will tend to under expose it. I move the marker to +1.0 it over exposes by a stop for every shot. The exposure looks more balanced. If I'm using a black or dark background it will over expose, compensating the other way. I use -1.0 to -2.0 for a more realistic exposure
Sometimes if you are doing night shots, the camera will expose so that the scene looks bright as day. I use -2.0 or -3.0 to keep the image darker and more realistic.
Or I may have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick regards your question.
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
I do not think is the exposure compensation.
When I am at manual mode (and thus no compensation) I can see a scale at the bottom of the screen that has a line legend that looks like that
-3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3
and there is an arrow above that moves above then as I adjust aperture and or shutter speed.
What I am confusing here? |
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miran
Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Posts: 1364
Location: Slovenia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:23 am Post subject: |
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miran wrote:
This scale is just for exposure compensation. In M mode it simply shows how far to the left/right you are with your manual settings from what the meter is getting. This has nothing to do with the properties of the sensor.
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hm.. thanks.. and if then shows me how off I am.. how I can find if a specific spot of my scene would be inside my sensors capabilities? If my camera have lets say 12ev dynamic range it would be fun to show me if I fall inside this region or not.
Regards
Alex |
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 1437
Expire: 2017-05-23
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10532
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| alaios wrote: |
I do not think is the exposure compensation.
When I am at manual mode (and thus no compensation) I can see a scale at the bottom of the screen that has a line legend that looks like that
-3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3
and there is an arrow above that moves above then as I adjust aperture and or shutter speed.
What I am confusing here? |
You are looking at the scale of the camera's exposure meter.
Scale range is 6 stops.
Scale shows only 6-stop segment of camera's 12-stop dynamic range.
If your camera has spot meter mode, yes this scale shows correct exposure of spot.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi,
thanks for the answers. We then agree if my camera has 12 ev dynamic range my camera shows me only 6 in total from -3 to +3 instead of -6 to +6...
Now, lets say that I want to kill all information from something I shoot and turn it into pure black.. how many stops should I go down to make sure that all the information from that region turns black? Should that be 6 stops or not?
Regards
Alex |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10532
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| alaios wrote: |
Hi,
thanks for the answers. We then agree if my camera has 12 ev dynamic range my camera shows me only 6 in total from -3 to +3 instead of -6 to +6...
Now, lets say that I want to kill all information from something I shoot and turn it into pure black.. how many stops should I go down to make sure that all the information from that region turns black? Should that be 6 stops or not?
Regards
Alex |
Up to twelve stops, of course, depending on brightness at something.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:55 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
if it 12 stops then how I can calculate that I am killing all the information from that spot? Is it only the nex cameras that do not show that type of information?
Regards
Alex |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10532
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| alaios wrote: |
if it 12 stops then how I can calculate that I am killing all the information from that spot? Is it only the nex cameras that do not show that type of information?
Regards
Alex |
Use brain to calculate settings for 12 stops less than what meter shows for spot.
What cameras do show that information?
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:25 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
well,, I am not sure.
I recall I read somewhere ( a book I owe...but I have to dig it out)
that with three stops down you can be sure that you killed mostly all information coming from that spot... but this might have been something also the author knew from film that has something like 5-6 stops dynamic range. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10532
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:22 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| alaios wrote: |
well,, I am not sure.
I recall I read somewhere ( a book I owe...but I have to dig it out)
that with three stops down you can be sure that you killed mostly all information coming from that spot... but this might have been something also the author knew from film that has something like 5-6 stops dynamic range. |
Ah, I made a mistake. You are correct...only half the dynamic range is needed to kill spot info...3 stops for film...6 stops for digital.
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☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi,
I am continuing with this discussion with slightly different angle
in the video you would find below
the photographer said that our eyes can see 12stops of dynamic range
http://www.stuckincustoms.com/complete-hdr-tutorial/
around at 4:50 until 5:30
I wonder though why my nex-f3 with around 12 ev dynamic range can not capture all the details my eye see.
What I am doing wrong here? |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7553
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
I guess you might have visited this site http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/cameras-vs-human-eye.htm .
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The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
thanks for remining me!!
Alex |
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