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Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, it is "without equal at 1:1".

Time to chuck out my Printing-Nikkors.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Fastest macro on earth" -- how about compared to a water-droplet lens? https://laser.physics.sunysb.edu/_scott/liquid-lens/index.html


PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
"Fastest macro on earth" -- how about compared to a water-droplet lens? https://laser.physics.sunysb.edu/_scott/liquid-lens/index.html


Except for industrial use I don't see the point of using superfast macro lenses.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, I had not heard of the FR Nikkor before. Very interesting lens. Thanks for posting.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Meyer Optik Görlitz Oreston 1.8/50 and early Pentacon branding variant can be hacked to reach MFD 27cm BTW.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
Meyer Optik Görlitz Oreston 1.8/50 and early Pentacon branding variant can be hacked to reach MFD 27cm BTW.


There are also helicoid adapters available that are quite affordable and allow for close focusing. I have one from the brand Urth that is fine. But there are more, also for different camera- and lens systems.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 Reply with quote
eggplant wrote:
wolan wrote:
kymarto wrote:
wolan wrote:
Hi,
I have never spent more then 200$ for an old lens, but for this Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 (=Chinon) I did an exception. I think it is worth its money (around 300$).


Cheers from Zurich


I believe the world's fastest macro lens is the Repro Nikkor 85mm f1.0, for 1:1 shooting.


Thanks Toby, I do not dare to ask how much it costs...

Cheers.


To necro-bump this, because why not it's relevant anyway, here's a very nice discussion in English on the FR Nikkor 75mm F1.0 for 1:1 shooting:

https://redbook-jp.com/redbook-e/record3/fr.html

There is also one, more brief, covering the Repro Nikkor 85mm f1.0 you mention.

https://redbook-jp.com/redbook-e/record/rep02.html










Check out that 150mm f1.0!!


That's not F/1 for either of the lenses it's 1:1 reproduction ratio.
If you check the aperture ring on the '75mm f1' you see it only goes to 2.
The dimensions also show the filter threads are too small to allow a 75mm entrance pupil. A 43mm diameter element fits well with f/2 Smile


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
while digressing from the original topic, it might be of interest that Chinon also made the M42 mount for the Kern MAcro.Switar 50/1,9, an apochromatically corected lens with quite good contrast.

p.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:


That's not F/1 for either of the lenses it's 1:1 reproduction ratio.
If you check the aperture ring on the '75mm f1' you see it only goes to 2.
The dimensions also show the filter threads are too small to allow a 75mm entrance pupil. A 43mm diameter element fits well with f/2 Smile


Indeed both the 75mm FR and 85mm Repro lenses are f/1 at infinity. The f/2 notation relates to effective aperture at the intended 1:1 reproduction ratio.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 Reply with quote
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
DConvert wrote:


That's not F/1 for either of the lenses it's 1:1 reproduction ratio.
If you check the aperture ring on the '75mm f1' you see it only goes to 2.
The dimensions also show the filter threads are too small to allow a 75mm entrance pupil. A 43mm diameter element fits well with f/2 Smile


Indeed both the 75mm FR and 85mm Repro lenses are f/1 at infinity. The f/2 notation relates to effective aperture at the intended 1:1 reproduction ratio.


If that was the case the front lens element would HAVE to be at least 75mm wide yet it's only 43mm.
Read up on what aperture is & do the maths rather than relying on reviews that have misread the Japanese data sheet.

Last edited by DConvert on Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 Reply with quote
[quote="DConvert"]
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
DConvert wrote:


That's not F/1 for either of the lenses it's 1:1 reproduction ratio.
If you check the aperture ring on the '75mm f1' you see it only goes to 2.
The dimensions also show the filter threads are too small to allow a 75mm entrance pupil. A 43mm diameter element fits well with f/2 Smile


Indeed both the 75mm FR and 85mm Repro lenses are f/1 at infinity. The f/2 notation relates to effective aperture at the intended 1:1 reproduction ratio.[/quote

If that was the case the front lens element would HAVE to be at least 75mm wide yet it's only 43mm.
Read up on what aperture is & do the maths rather than relying on reviews that have misread the Japanese data sheet.


You are making the assumption that the entrance pupil is at the plane of the outermost lens(es), which is incorrect in the case of these lenses.

And it would be good to not be condescending to me and the other folks who have replied on this thread, please.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It can't focus at infinity so who cares what the infinity aperture is. It is only theoretical.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 Reply with quote
[quote="Ray Parkhurst"]
DConvert wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
DConvert wrote:


That's not F/1 for either of the lenses it's 1:1 reproduction ratio.
If you check the aperture ring on the '75mm f1' you see it only goes to 2.
The dimensions also show the filter threads are too small to allow a 75mm entrance pupil. A 43mm diameter element fits well with f/2 Smile


Indeed both the 75mm FR and 85mm Repro lenses are f/1 at infinity. The f/2 notation relates to effective aperture at the intended 1:1 reproduction ratio.[/quote

If that was the case the front lens element would HAVE to be at least 75mm wide yet it's only 43mm.
Read up on what aperture is & do the maths rather than relying on reviews that have misread the Japanese data sheet.


You are making the assumption that the entrance pupil is at the plane of the outermost lens(es), which is incorrect in the case of these lenses.

And it would be good to not be condescending to me and the other folks who have replied on this thread, please.


Where ever the entrance pupil is light from infinity can't enter an area bigger than the front element. It is the upper limit of possible entrance pupil sizes.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:


Where ever the entrance pupil is light from infinity can't enter an area bigger than the front element. It is the upper limit of possible entrance pupil sizes.


I believe this is incorrect.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 Reply with quote
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
DConvert wrote:


Where ever the entrance pupil is light from infinity can't enter an area bigger than the front element. It is the upper limit of possible entrance pupil sizes.


I believe this is incorrect.


Meaning entrance pupil can be in front of lens?


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastest macro on earth: Porst Color Reflex MCM 55mm F1.7 Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
DConvert wrote:


Where ever the entrance pupil is light from infinity can't enter an area bigger than the front element. It is the upper limit of possible entrance pupil sizes.


I believe this is incorrect.


Meaning entrance pupil can be in front of lens?


Yes, or behind in this case. As it says in the literature above, "Another prominent characteristic of the lens is that the entrance and exit pupils are located far behind the lens, which makes the principal rays (rays passing through the center of each pupil) run almost parallel to the optical axis."


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
It can't focus at infinity so who cares what the infinity aperture is. It is only theoretical.


This is a good observation. As @DConvert says, the lens diameter is indeed the limiting factor, for infinity focus, but since the lens can't focus at infinity due ot the entrance and exit pupil locations, it is not limited by the lens diameter when focused at its intended 1:1 magnification.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
e6filmuser wrote:
So, it is "without equal at 1:1".

Time to chuck out my Printing-Nikkors.


The FR and Repro Nikkors were developed before the Printing-Nikkors. At that time, they were indeed the best available for 1:1, but the Printing-Nikkors are for sure superior, to anything made then, or today, for macro use in their intended ranges.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
e6filmuser wrote:
Raxar wrote:
wolfhansen wrote:
ehm - why is it worth 300 bucks?

it just more collectible than ordinary 55/1.7 lens because it has 3:1 macro. no other reason came to my mind.


1:3!


Not too much difference then, less than an order of magnitude... Twisted Evil

To be fair the lens does say Macro on the name ring as seen in the first photo http://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_4694.html#prettyPhoto

When I first read 3:1 I was like, woah, I've never heard of this lens, sounds super interesting, looked at the link, to find a close focus 1:3 that's not so uniq, there are far too many lenses with the "Macro" label when they should be 'Close Focus' at best, but that's marketing for you, "Macro" was a bit of a marketing gimmick for a while, I've seen lots of lenses with slightly closer focusing being marked as "Macro" so the marketing must have worked to some degree for there to be that many of them out there in the wild.

Over the years I've grown to love lenses that can focus closer than normal, it gives me more options for composing a shot that might otherwise be impossible. In the right hands/circumstances it can be a game changer.
Tubes or helicoid adapters can provide that same opportunity with lenses you'd never think of using, like for example an EF 85/1.2LII wide open on tubes, definitely not a typical setup, nor typical results.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've seen/owned lenses marked "macro" which were capable of only 1:4 magnification. The definition of "macro" has changed over time, at least from marketing perspective. I get a lot of use out of a Nikon 28-105mm "macro" which can only go to 1:2, and by today's standards would not be considered a macro lens, so I'm open to a wide range of interpretations. As long as the image quality is good.
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