Extremely sharp MF lens at a reasonable price

gazoo · Joined: 14 Mar 2018 Posts: 7

What is the sharpest possible Medium Format (or even 35mm) lens that is not too expensive?

This will be adapted to a 35mm movie camera. Advantage with using a Medium Format lens on a Super35 format is that I am using the sharpest part of the lens, I are getting more light out of the lens and the focusing barrel is bigger.

I am looking at:
Jena 180mm 2.8 Pentacon Six (MF lens)
Jena 80mm 2.8 Pentacon Six (MF lens)
Jena 135mm 3.5 M42 (35mm lens)

Pentode · Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Posts: 7 Location: Stoke on Trent

I have a lot of lenses and I can honestly say that the sharpest one is my SMC Pentax M 100mm f4 macro. I believe the SMC Takumar 135mm f2.5 is excellent if you get the right version of it, as there were two versions. The 100mm f4 was also available with an M42 mount. Most macro lenses are of simple optical construction and should be sharp. To be honest, the resolution of many decent primes will exceed the resolving capabilities of most film emulsions.
The Canon FD 35mm f2 chrome nose is very sharp too, and much better than the SSC version with a floating element. The downside is the yellow tint, they acquire over time, due to the use of Thorium in some of the glass. This was done to reduce dispersion.
If you decide to try the Pentax 100mm f4 macro lens, look out for balsam failure. Mine has it slightly and I would imagine that it reduces the contrast slightly.
Try to go for multicoated lenses as they will give your images more contrast and therefore greater perceived sharpness.
Oh, the P6 Zeiss Jena 50mm f4 Flektogon is extremely sharp too.

calvin83 · Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7553 Location: Hong Kong

You won't get more light out of a lens with more coverage unless you use a focal reducer. With a focal reducer, the sharpness may decrease depends on the quality off the focal reducer and the design of the lens.

Raxar · Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 222

hemeterfilms · Joined: 04 Jul 2012 Posts: 80 Location: Mexico City

The crop factor of the 35mm movie frame on those lenses will give a telephoto field of view - is that what you need ?

folderholder · Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 102 Location: California

In MF lenses I particularly like the 50/2.8 and 75/2.8 Nikon lenses for the Bronica S series. The Zenzanons for later Bronica models are quite good, too. You could also look at MF lenses made for Mamiya and Pentax. These all have large image circles. I did not notice the MF Nikkors or Zenzanons I tried to be any less sharp than lenses made for use with 35mm format film. I sort of recall hearing that the 135mm Nikkor for 35mm and 2 1/4 were the same lens optically, just with different mounts. The 35mm version just used the center of the image circle. Plus all these are not very expensive lenses to buy nowadays.

Teemō · Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Posts: 586 Location: Australia

gazoo · Joined: 14 Mar 2018 Posts: 7

Thanks everyone for the reply.

I do know that 35mm lenses are sharper than MF and LF lenses because the image is magnified to a greater degree.

However without trying lenses and testing them side-by-side, I can't tell if the Jena Medium Format is any better or worse than the 35mm M42 version when used on a Super35 film camera (a Super35 frame is even smaller than traditional 35mm still film).

The advantage with Medium Format lenses is that they are physically larger which means that the focus barrel is also larger. This is advantageous in filmmaking because there is greater degree of accuracy when pulling focus. In fact, many older lenses are being rehoused and sold to the filmmaking community for outrageous prices.

Sharpness in filmmaking is absolutely critical because the image is magnified on a big movie screen.

As far as my comment about the Medium Format lenses transmitting more light, this is a "heated" area of debate that we won't get out into.

The SMC Takumar f4.0 150mm is a good lead. This lead me to the Pentax SMC 50mm f4 which seems super sharp as well. They sell for about 110-200 dollars in M42 mount.

Also thanks for letting me know about the P6 Zeiss Jena 50mm f4 Flektogon. It does seem very sharp. I also found out about the Zeiss 20mm f4 in M42 mount which is supposed to be super sharp in the center (and very soft in the corners). I will be looking at these lenses as well.

I am also looking at the Pentax SMC 50mm F/1.4 in M42 mount which is supposed to be super sharp in the center when stopped down. I might be getting the Jena 135mm F/3.5 in M42 as well.

The other lenses you suggest (unfortunately) can't be adapted into PL mount cameras (at least no adapters exist).

Any more of these leads will be greatly appreciated!

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3754 Location: Switzerland

gazoo · Joined: 14 Mar 2018 Posts: 7

Stephan,

The Mamiya Sekor C 1.9/80mm looks great. There is even one on eBay that has been converted to PL mount. However, the lens is $800 and the a PL mod is $495. Quite a bit more money than the vintage 35mm glass.

Unfortunately the Canon lenses can't be adapted to PL mount (only the other way around). Same for Minolta.

The mounts that can be adapted to PL (that I know of) are:

M42
Bayonet
Petacon Six
Kiev 88
Kiev 66
Pentax 645
Pentax 6x7 (P67, PK67)
Mamiya 645
Hasselblad V

Any other suggestions for a "top sharp" lens?

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

Anatol_M · Joined: 23 Dec 2017 Posts: 34

Maybe the Zeiss 1.7/50 C/Y ? It seems to stand out a bit in terms of sharpness compared to other sharp vintage 50's.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

If sharpness is the prime consideration, go grab a Zenitar 1.7/50 or 2/50, available cheap as New, old stock, from Russia. Can't think of a sharper 50.

But, consider that video, even 4k, is not demanding of resolution to a high degree, so any good 50 will more than suffice.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9097 Location: Houston, Texas

Look, since you're after budget lenses that are very sharp, my recommendation is easy, and it's based on past experience. Get yourself a selection of Pentax lenses. Most of my experience has to do with older K-mount lenses, but I'll wager that the M42 Takumars are just as sharp, as are the later Pentax designs. Pentax has a reputation of designing scary sharp stuff. And you sure can't beat the average Pentax or Takumar's price, either, unless it's some sort of specialized optic. But lenses like a K-mount 28mm, 35mm, 50mm and 135mm can be picked up on eBay and elsewhere for very reasonable. For "elsewhere" I recommend you check in at the Pentax Forums and go to their buy/sell page. You might have to be a member to access the page, but so what if you aren't already? Join up.

Pentode recommended the Pentax M 100mm f/4 Macro. I can second this, although the one I have is an M42 SMC Tak 100mm f/4 macro. It is a very sharp lens. Same optical formula?

Often some of the cheaper optics, like a 28mm f/3.5 or a 135mm f/3.5 can be picked up for peanuts because they're a half-stop slower than the 2.8s. You can save a tidy sum and they are just as sharp if not more so even.

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

Raxar · Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 222

gazoo · Joined: 14 Mar 2018 Posts: 7

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Full frame 35mm movie is about 2k resolution, it just looks acceptable because you're viewing it from a long distance in a theatre, if you got in close, you'd see that it's pretty low res.

If you look at the lenses used in the pre-digital days, they were nothing special in the sharpness aspect, they didn't have to be because 35mm film stocks just couldn't record higher than a certain resolution, so as long as the lens could reach that resolution, you were maximising the possible sharpness. Even something like the humble 2.8/50 Tessar is capable of reaching that level of resolution.

Focusthrow · Joined: 12 Sep 2017 Posts: 209

e6filmuser · Joined: 12 Nov 2010 Posts: 555 Location: Reading UK

You might like to consider:

Leitz Summar 12cm f4.5 Close Range Large Format Lens.

caspert79 · Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2917 Location: The Netherlands

Rikenon XR 50mm f/2 is a hidden gem.

Oldhand · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:07 pm Post subject:

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Are we talking about the pancake sized Rikenon XR?

I've got one and it's nothing special, but that might just be my copy.

Oldhand · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:34 pm Post subject:

arozenfeld · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:34 am Post subject:

While we're talking medium format lenses, anybody tried the Kipon Beveyes medium format to ff focal reducer?
I always had the impression that some medium format lenses (such as Mamiya 80mm f/1.9) have a very special thing in the transition to OOF that you don't get in ff. I wonder what you think and if that would work with this adapter? I read contradictory information on this (some people say that larger lenses of equivalent aperture don't have any benefit, other than the higher resolution of MF).