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Extremely rare early Hexanon 1.8/85mm for Konica F?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Extremely rare early Hexanon 1.8/85mm for Konica F? Reply with quote
Yesterday, working somewhere on the Swiss countryside, i ran into an small photo store with a few old lenses and cameras in the window. I wasn't sure whether this was decoration or some stuff to sell, so i stepped in and asked - it was decoration, to be sold later on. Nevertheless i asked for the price of an MD-II 2/28mm and a nice Konica FM with Konica F (not AR!) 1.4/52mm. The price was acceptable, i decided to buy them. A minute later the shopkeeper brought another Konica lens, obviously a part of the Konica FM package, looking like a 3.5/135mm. I didn't care about it (it was a free gift), took it and left. Only later i discovered that it was a Konica F 1.8/85mm with a large tubular lens hood which made the lens look like a 135mm!

While the Konica F (not AR!) 1.8/85mm certainly is a relatively rare find, i was astonished to discover that this particular lens seems to be one of the very few early Konica Hexanon 1.8/85mm lenses manufactured specifically for the legendary Konica F SLR:






There were only about 500-1500 Konica F SLRs made, and obviously much less 1.8/85mm lenses for the Konica F (later 1.8/85mm lenses with F bayonet are more "common", and the AR 1.8/85mm of course is easy to find).

Look at the strange engraving ("metre" instead of "meter"). The minimal focusing distance is 1.5m, and the exterior is completely different from the more common later Konica F lenses.

A nice find indeed Wink

Stephan


PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice, congrats!


PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"nice find" lol understatement!!!

Congrats Whoo Turtle


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: Extremely rare early Hexanon 1.8/85mm for Konica F? Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
Yesterday, working somewhere on the Swiss countryside, i ran into an small photo store with a few old lenses and cameras in the window. I wasn't sure whether this was decoration or some stuff to sell, so i stepped in and asked - it was decoration, to be sold later on. Nevertheless i asked for the price of an MD-II 2/28mm and a nice Konica FM with Konica F (not AR!) 1.4/52mm. The price was acceptable, i decided to buy them. A minute later the shopkeeper brought another Konica lens, obviously a part of the Konica FM package, looking like a 3.5/135mm. I didn't care about it (it was a free gift), took it and left. Only later i discovered that it was a Konica F 1.8/85mm with a large tubular lens hood which made the lens look like a 135mm!

While the Konica F (not AR!) 1.8/85mm certainly is a relatively rare find, i was astonished to discover that this particular lens seems to be one of the very few early Konica Hexanon 1.8/85mm lenses manufactured specifically for the legendary Konica F SLR:






There were only about 500-1500 Konica F SLRs made, and obviously much less 1.8/85mm lenses for the Konica F (later 1.8/85mm lenses with F bayonet are more "common", and the AR 1.8/85mm of course is easy to find).

Look at the strange engraving ("metre" instead of "meter"). The minimal focusing distance is 1.5m, and the exterior is completely different from the more common later Konica F lenses.

A nice find indeed Wink

Stephan


What a great find!!!! It looks to be in nice condition too.
Actually, "metre" is not a strange engraving, because that's the CORRECT way of spelling it!!!
Americans have changed the spelling to "meter"


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry for the low quality of the images; i was in hurry because of too much work, but better images will follow Wink

Now, of course, i'm wondering about the Konica F that must have been there as well, nearly 60 years ago ... still somewhere sitting in a cupboard? Or thrown away 55 years ago and replaced by the Konica FM?

Stephan


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Extremely rare early Hexanon 1.8/85mm for Konica F? Reply with quote
dnas wrote:

What a great find!!!! It looks to be in nice condition too.
Actually, "metre" is not a strange engraving, because that's the CORRECT way of spelling it!!!
Americans have changed the spelling to "meter"


Yeah, the lens is in a very nice condition - basically like new, apart from some dust speckles inside the optical system. Focusing is very smooth, much smoother than with the later AR series. The aperture is working, and the slightly fragile mechanism for the automatic aperture system is working perfectly as well. The entire construction of the lens barrel seems to be a little bit fragile; if one applies slightly too much force/pressure on the barrel while focusing there's quite a bit more friction. Similar problems as with the Minolta Auto Rokkor / MC Rokkor 2/100mm, BTW!

visualopsins wrote:
"nice find" lol understatement!!!

Congrats Whoo Turtle

I'm not a Konica expert and i can't really comment about the rarity of the lens; the lens serial may indicate the 328th lens (S/N 5120328). Does anybody know more about early Konica serials?




Stephan


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1 Congrats


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Extremely rare early Hexanon 1.8/85mm for Konica F? Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
I'm not a Konica expert and i can't really comment about the rarity of the lens; the lens serial may indicate the 328th lens (S/N 5120328). Does anybody know more about early Konica serials?
Stephan


I've been looking at the serial numbers of Konica F series cameras and lenses for many years. In my small database I have noted 16 Konica F SLRs (introduced in Feb. 1960) on various online auction sites. Their SN go from 100005 to 101480. So it would seem that at least 1500 of them were made. I would assume approximately the same number of the 52/1.4 standard lens were also made, but much fewer of the three other lenses that were specific to that camera - the 35/2, the 85/1.8 and the 135/2.8. All three are rare birds indeed, especially the last one. The 135 is the only Konica-made 135 with an aperture of 2.8. It was quickly replaced by the 135/3/5, in both preset and auto aperture versions, which became the basic 135s for Konica's F-mount SLRs.

Congratulations Stephan! What a great deal! Curiously enough, I also came into the possession of a F-series 85/1.8 just a couple of months ago. There is an issue with the aperture mechanism and it is being CLA'd right now. I can't wait to get it back. In the meantime, I am working on setting up an adapter so I can use it on my A7, along with other F-mount lenses.

EDIT: I forgot to add, that during the time that I saw 16 Konica F cameras online, I only came across four 85/1.8s. Yours is the one with the highest SN. So I doubt very much any more than 500 were made, if that.
Incidentally, there seem to have been 2 production runs. The first have capital and small letters spelling out the lens' specs on the front ring (SN 5120028, sold on Yahoo Japan for 80,000 JPY in Nov. 2015). Mine and yours have large block letters throughout.

Last edited by konicamera on Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:31 pm; edited 3 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great find, gets the juices flowing! Like 1


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Extremely rare early Hexanon 1.8/85mm for Konica F? Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

...
A minute later the shopkeeper brought another Konica lens, obviously a part of the Konica FM package, looking like a 3.5/135mm. I didn't care about it (it was a free gift), took it and left. Only later i discovered that it was a Konica F 1.8/85mm with a large tubular lens hood which made the lens look like a 135mm!


I'm sure some of you were wondering how i could have confused a 1.8/85mm with a 2.8/135mm or a 3.5/135mm lens.
Here's why:


Left side: Konica Hexanon F 1.8/85mm with (not genuine!) lens hood attached; right side: Minolta MC-II 2.8/135mm

Stephan


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Extremely rare early Hexanon 1.8/85mm for Konica F? Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
stevemark wrote:

...
A minute later the shopkeeper brought another Konica lens, obviously a part of the Konica FM package, looking like a 3.5/135mm. I didn't care about it (it was a free gift), took it and left. Only later i discovered that it was a Konica F 1.8/85mm with a large tubular lens hood which made the lens look like a 135mm!


I'm sure some of you were wondering how i could have confused a 1.8/85mm with a 2.8/135mm or a 3.5/135mm lens.
Here's why:


Left side: Konica Hexanon F 1.8/85mm with (not genuine!) lens hood attached; right side: Minolta MC-II 2.8/135mm

Stephan

No wonder. I would have too Smile
Incidentally, that lens cap is rare as hens' teeth. Only Konica F-specific lenses had caps with the word Hexanon on them, and as they like to go walk about .....


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1 wonderful find!!


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Beautiful lens! I am betting it shoots as good as it looks. I have a bunch of the AR variety, and they are all very capable.

Of the older Konica F gear, I only know from I what I have read. One interesting point about the F lenses is that they were designed and marketed to accept an adapter to be able to be used on Exakta bodies. This was apparently touted very aggressively.

Lastly, I remembered some do's and don'ts about using the Konica F for picture taking. It took me a while to find the article but here it is:

Herz provides four "important cautions" specific to the F. These are:

"When changing lenses never touch the manual aperture control" [i.e. stop-down lever, depth-of-field preview lever].

"Do not operate the cocking lever [i.e. film advance lever] while the shutter mechanism is in action at B or while the shutter is working at slow shutter speeds."

"Do not touch the focal plane shutter or the instant return mirror."

"When the rewind lever at the bottom of the camera is set at the R position, it cannot be moved back by hand. It resets itself automatically when you operate the cocking lever."

Looking forward to seeing some pics from the lens!

P.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
pdccameras wrote:
Of the older Konica F gear, I only know from I what I have read. One interesting point about the F lenses is that they were designed and marketed to accept an adapter to be able to be used on Exakta bodies. This was apparently touted very aggressively.


Actually, it's the other way around - Konica made an adapter allowing Exacta lenses to be used on Konica F cameras. After 1965, a similar adapter was made to allow Exacta lenses to be used on Konica AR cameras. The Konica F-mount and AR-mount have the same register/F2F distance (40.5mm) . It made those lenses practically unusable on any other mount, with the theoretical exception of the Alpa mount (38.7mm), without an adapter with an optical element in it. The Exacta register is 44.7mm. Konica made 3 such adapters - for Exacta, M42, and Nikon mount lenses. There is an Exacta lens to Konica F-mount adapter on sale on Ebay right now. They don't show up very often, so if you have a F-mount body and a bunch of Exacta lenses laying around, this one's for you:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Exakta-Lens-Adapter-for-Konica-FS-Mount-Exacta/202403344241?hash=item2f202def71:g:rCYAAOSwpzdWqssa


PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
konicamera wrote:
pdccameras wrote:
Of the older Konica F gear, I only know from I what I have read. One interesting point about the F lenses is that they were designed and marketed to accept an adapter to be able to be used on Exakta bodies. This was apparently touted very aggressively.


Actually, it's the other way around - Konica made an adapter allowing Exacta lenses to be used on Konica F cameras. After 1965, a similar adapter was made to allow Exacta lenses to be used on Konica AR cameras. The Konica F-mount and AR-mount have the same register/F2F distance (40.5mm) . It made those lenses practically unusable on any other mount, with the theoretical exception of the Alpa mount (38.7mm), without an adapter with an optical element in it. The Exacta register is 44.7mm. Konica made 3 such adapters - for Exacta, M42, and Nikon mount lenses. There is an Exacta lens to Konica F-mount adapter on sale on Ebay right now. They don't show up very often, so if you have a F-mount body and a bunch of Exacta lenses laying around, this one's for you:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Exakta-Lens-Adapter-for-Konica-FS-Mount-Exacta/202403344241?hash=item2f202def71:g:rCYAAOSwpzdWqssa


Of course - my error! I have all three adapters, and here they are - very nicely made:



PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice find.
There is also the Konica F to AR adapter that's also rare. http://forum.mflenses.com/konica-f-lens-to-konica-ar-body-adapter-t14895.html


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's always interesting to see how shamelessly some Chinese are stealing intellectual property Wink

http://www.hexanon.net/konica_lens_detail/85f1-8/

The text is mainly stolen from the A. Buhl (Buhla.de) website, the images are partly mine ...
Everything of course without any hint about the true source ...

Stephan


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
It's always interesting to see how shamelessly some Chinese are stealing intellectual property Wink

http://www.hexanon.net/konica_lens_detail/85f1-8/

The text is mainly stolen from the A. Buhl (Buhla.de) website, the images are partly mine ...
Everything of course without any hint about the true source ...

Stephan

Yes, I've noticed Andreas Buhl's material on this site some time ago. He has also translated entire pages from my site. Most of my "Technical Questions" section is in Chinese on his site, but he never contacted me. He does indicate where the text came from, however, and gives a link to the original page. Too bad he doesn't do this with the photos. Some of this is quite funny, actually. He thinks Mr and Mrs Froehlich, importers of Konica equipment to the USA, the people I dedicated my site to, are the authors of my site.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The site said he had contacted Andreas Buhl for permission using the content from buhla.de but never get any reply. He also admit that there are photos taken from others which he plans to replace them with his own photos/authorized photos later.

Quote:
如你所见，这个网站的很多内容来自对http://www.buhla.de的翻译，很多图片是直接盗用的。对此，首先感谢Andreas Buhl等人对Konica相关资料的收集整理工作，其次，我在2012年7月给他发了一封邮件，请求得到翻译转载的许可，到目前为止未得到回应。所以，本网站确实存在侵权的问题。本人计划在后续的更新中予以解决，网站中直接拷贝的图片将会被我自己拍摄的或被授权的图片替代，文字部分将会进行改写。在此之前，请不要对上述内容进行转载。整个过程会很漫长，我只能抽空用闲暇时间进行更新，如果有人对此有所异议，请发邮件至si_chow@msn.com，本人可以考虑暂时关闭此站。

http://www.hexanon.net/announce/


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, that's rare find. Hopefully you will share some sample photos. Thanks.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:
Wow, that's rare find. Hopefully you will share some sample photos. Thanks.


I don't have any adapter (remember, it's Konica F bayonet, not Konica AR!), and i don't know where to get one ... and since the bayonet flange is not completely flat - some mechanical elements for the aperture mechanism on the lens side are protruding - i can't simply hold the Konica F 1.8/85mm lens in front of a Konica AR adapter.

Stephan


PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
The site said he had contacted Andreas Buhl for permission using the content from buhla.de but never get any reply. He also admit that there are photos taken from others which he plans to replace them with his own photos/authorized photos later.

Quote:
如你所见，这个网站的很多内容来自对http://www.buhla.de的翻译，很多图片是直接盗用的。对此，首先感谢Andreas Buhl等人对Konica相关资料的收集整理工作，其次，我在2012年7月给他发了一封邮件，请求得到翻译转载的许可，到目前为止未得到回应。所以，本网站确实存在侵权的问题。本人计划在后续的更新中予以解决，网站中直接拷贝的图片将会被我自己拍摄的或被授权的图片替代，文字部分将会进行改写。在此之前，请不要对上述内容进行转载。整个过程会很漫长，我只能抽空用闲暇时间进行更新，如果有人对此有所异议，请发邮件至si_chow@msn.com，本人可以考虑暂时关闭此站。

http://www.hexanon.net/announce/


So if i contact you asking if i can take you camera collection, and you don't answer me ... i can take it?

I know some engineers at Audi and they have interesting stories to tell about some Chinese and copyright. And ask some internet security people at large Swiss banks what they have to tell you ...

Stephan


PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
The site said he had contacted Andreas Buhl for permission using the content from buhla.de but never get any reply. He also admit that there are photos taken from others which he plans to replace them with his own photos/authorized photos later.

Quote:
如你所见，这个网站的很多内容来自对http://www.buhla.de的翻译，很多图片是直接盗用的。对此，首先感谢Andreas Buhl等人对Konica相关资料的收集整理工作，其次，我在2012年7月给他发了一封邮件，请求得到翻译转载的许可，到目前为止未得到回应。所以，本网站确实存在侵权的问题。本人计划在后续的更新中予以解决，网站中直接拷贝的图片将会被我自己拍摄的或被授权的图片替代，文字部分将会进行改写。在此之前，请不要对上述内容进行转载。整个过程会很漫长，我只能抽空用闲暇时间进行更新，如果有人对此有所异议，请发邮件至si_chow@msn.com，本人可以考虑暂时关闭此站。

http://www.hexanon.net/announce/


So if i contact you asking if i can take you camera collection, and you don't answer me ... i can take it?

I know some engineers at Audi and they have interesting stories to tell about some Chinese and copyright. And ask some internet security people at large Swiss banks what they have to tell you ...

Stephan

Sephan, I suspect an argument claiming that the loss you incurred at his use of your photos is comparable to loosing one's entire camera collection would not hold up in court unless you were Helmuit Newton. Of course, the site's author should have contacted you first, but in any court of law, his intention would be of paramount importance. From from what Calvin has shared above, it is clear the author has no intention of stealing and invites people concerned to write to him to have their stuff removed if they so please. I find this fair enough. Also note, that his site is purely informative, he makes no profit on it, so I think in many jurisdictions his use of your photos could fall under Fair Use guidelines. This said, I feel he should clearly attribute the authorship of each and every photo he uses.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
konicamera wrote:

Sephan, I suspect an argument claiming that the loss you incurred at his use of your photos is comparable to loosing one's entire camera collection would not hold up in court unless you were Helmuit Newton. Of course, the site's author should have contacted you first, but in any court of law, his intention would be of paramount importance. From from what Calvin has shared above, it is clear the author has no intention of stealing and invites people concerned to write to him to have their stuff removed if they so please. I find this fair enough. Also note, that his site is purely informative, he makes no profit on it, so I think in many jurisdictions his use of your photos could fall under Fair Use guidelines. This said, I feel he should clearly attribute the authorship of each and every photo he uses.


Sorry, i had been writing this with a smile on my face, of course Wink ... i would never start any legal "quarrel" about such an issue!!

As you know many of the user reviews on my Minolta MC/MD sites are from the former German "Minolta Forum". I originally had collected some user info on different Minolta MC/MD lenses, just for my own sake. Later i thought this collection might be useful for others, and i put a part of the collected information on "artaphot". At the same time i started a discussion at "Minolta Forum" asking those people whether i should keep my "stolen" information online or not. There was no rejection from anyone, and thus i left those things online.

Nowadays, however, i only put my own stuff on artaphot. There are a few rare exceptions such as the image of the MD 2.8/300mm APO which originally comes from an ebay auction. I have not witnessed that auction, and i got the corresponding image via other persons - therefore i cannot cite the original photographer (i would love to get in contact with him, since he was obviously selling lots of prototype Minolta stuff, probably directly out of Minolta).

It certainly is OK to cite information from other websites, or to occasionally use images (including a link to the original source!!) - but hey: to copy more or less an entire website ...?!? Not really nice ...

I may contact A. Buhl and see what he says about it ...

Stephan


PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Extremely rare early Hexanon 1.8/85mm for Konica F? Reply with quote
I also got two Hexanon F-mount 85/1.8's.
one's SN is 5120076 another is 5120400,obviously the former has more blod letters then latter.

BTW,the genuine accessories for Hexanon F-mount 85/1.8 are also rare,you can see in below pictures,I think you can't find another copy in internet.

#1


#2


#3


#4


#5
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