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Economic options for scanning negatives . . .
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:54 am    Post subject: Economic options for scanning negatives . . . Reply with quote

I hadn't realized the possibilities for the scanning in of negatives. The scans I've done are of prints using an old Canon N340P flatbed.

First I am aware of the old axiom of buy the best you can afford- that said . . .
My question is what is the most economical option for scanning negatives?

I use economical and not cheap because there are some inexpensive options out there that if you bought you would be throwing your money away, right. This could easily be also that one is hard to easily/readily get good scans from.

I don't think I have to worry about Medium format capable yet, and the idea of getting hold of a stack of old family negatives and scanning up a disc or 3 sounds appealing. I have wandered eBay already, so any advice is appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one jim, i was just about to post the very same question (and sorry for sort of hijacking your thread).

It would be nice to have the option of scanning medium format as I hope to take that route in the future, but its not a necessity at the moment. I can't really spend over ?200, so am looking for the best value for money, not just the cheapest.

I'm just not sure if it would be best to go for a flatbed like an Epson Perfection V500, Canon 8800F, or for a dedicated 35mm scanner like the Plustek Optic 7300.

Its all kind of new to me, so any advice would be great..


PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scanner suggestions are very welcome for me as well. I'm very curious to hear and see what Larry thinks about the V700 from epson. The V500 is half of it's cost but $250 is not much if the visual difference is much greater. Put it another way. If the scanner is with you for 5 years the extra quality is sure worth spreading an extra $25 a year. Any report yet Laurence? Question


PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F16SUNSHINE wrote:
Scanner suggestions are very welcome for me as well. I'm very curious to hear and see what Larry thinks about the V700 from epson. The V500 is half of it's cost but $250 is not much if the visual difference is much greater. Put it another way. If the scanner is with you for 5 years the extra quality is sure worth spreading an extra $25 a year. Any report yet Laurence? Question


I just got the V700 a few weeks ago. I'm very impressed with the scanning quality and all the various film holders. You have to use one of the special masks to make the film scanner work, which feels a bit restrictive. And I love the useful flat top when it's not being used.

I'm not yet convinced about the scanning software, it runs really slowly on my machine, and only from within PS. I'm going to try unloading PS and reinstalling the scanner, but I'm wondering if I might have a memory problem.

The V500 is a lot cheaper but it has the same lens system and resolution. The only difference is the size of the film scanner and the bundled software. You need to read the specs before you decide, but I think the V500 is probably better value.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Peter
Thanks for the report. I do plan to scan some 4x5 B+W negs as well as 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9 negs and transparencies as well as 35mm. Also michelle would like to scan some of her 8x10 prints that she works up in the wet lab (she hate computer PP). Have you anything to comment in regard to the type of use I mention. I have learned that the film masks although cumbersome, do make life easier when image is actually uploaded. Have you tried the wet system that is designed for transparency scanning with the v700? Thanks for your responses I really feel a bit lost. It seems that the most money spent on scanners is in the time it takes to get to know the one you are working with. That reason alone is why I am considering spending a bit more rather than less. I would hate to invest a lot of time learning to use a machine and discover a glaring shortcoming.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all -- I haven't yet received the V700, so I can't say quite yet.

However, the 2450 was DYNAMITE on medium format, and only adequate on 35mm. Although...every once in a while I would get an extremely nice 35mm scan.

I decided on the V700 after a lot of soul-searching for "what do I really need, and do I want to spend a bit more for quality?"

What tipped it for me was seeing John ( a friend ) use his workflow on the V700 and coming up with beautiful 35mm scans from both a neg and a slide.

Then he put a 4.5x6 medium format transparency on the V700 and gave it a 6400dpi scan (a HUGE file, but he has a dual-processer system with 4GB of RAM). A 100% crop of that slide just about made me faint. I think that he said it would be the equivalent of a 80x96 inch print.

John said he usually uses about 2400 to 4000 depending on what he anticipates the final print to be. In fact, it is capable of 6400dpi, but he reserves that for extremely fine 35mm.

John uses VERY little of the built-in tweaks available from the scanner. However, he DOES use the Unsharp Mask checkbox on the scanner. It still needs some Unsharp Mask in Photoshop even after that. But in the scanning, he sticks with Automatic. I certainly could see nothing wrong with the output on "Automatic"...but then I was still swooning from the "snap crackle pop" of the scan itself!

I haven't seen any results from the oil bath scans, but John has. He said he didn't think it worth the trouble as the V700 exceeds every requirement he would ever want.

I've yet to see results from a 4x5, but it HAS to be pretty damn good, based on the medium format output.

So...I am hoping this will be my last scanner, and that it lasts the 20-25 years that I still expect to live and shoot.

A final consideration was that I am so in love with medium format, and I know I'll be shooting out those years with mostly that format. To me, I feel that I spent well. The cost was $489 with shipping. I also bought a Square Trade warranty at $58 for the first year of coverage, because usually if it's going to crap out, it's not long before that happens. I think that after a year, any problems or downright broken parts would have already shown up.

But again...I'll be scanning with the V700. I have saved some images that you guys havent' seen yet, that I thought were good ones. So...we'll see what we see.

And one thing in all this -- if the scanner does not meet my needs, or is not what I expect, it is easily sold.

Here is a good site for researching. This guy has been pretty honest throughout the years of his reviews, and has actually reviewed in "real time" - meaning "as he uses it" - to give an unbiased report of his real world scanning with the particular piece of equipment.

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%20V700/page_1.htm


PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

F16SUNSHINE wrote:
Hi Peter
Thanks for the report. I do plan to scan some 4x5 B+W negs as well as 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9 negs and transparencies as well as 35mm. Also michelle would like to scan some of her 8x10 prints that she works up in the wet lab (she hate computer PP). Have you anything to comment in regard to the type of use I mention. I have learned that the film masks although cumbersome, do make life easier when image is actually uploaded. Have you tried the wet system that is designed for transparency scanning with the v700? Thanks for your responses I really feel a bit lost. It seems that the most money spent on scanners is in the time it takes to get to know the one you are working with. That reason alone is why I am considering spending a bit more rather than less. I would hate to invest a lot of time learning to use a machine and discover a glaring shortcoming.


Hi Andy. The scanner comes with several different film holders and all the sizes you mention can be used with these. The software and the film scanning light in the lid only work properly if you're using one of these holders, but there's also a simple plastic "frame" they call the "Film Area Guide" for non-standard sizes, although with this the film will be in contact with the glass, so there's a risk of Newtons Rings.

I'm still getting to grips with the scanning software. It has 3 operating modes - Full Auto, Home and Professional. Scanning the 8x10 prints would be quick and simple in Full Auto mode and you can change basic settings. I'm in the process of scanning hundreds of prints and burning onto CD for my son in Australia, and Full Auto is fine for this job. But for film you really need to use the more advanced modes to take advantage of Digital ICE etc. There's a box to tick to produce thumbnails in preview mode and you can set different scanning options and values for each thumbnail before you scan, which is quite a good idea I think. I'm having a little trouble getting the scanner to recognise the film sizes though, I think I need more time with it yet.

I haven't looked at the Silverfast software yet. The V750 has the full version but the V700 only has a "Lite" version.

As for liquid mount, this isn't mentioned at all in the V700 manual and I understand it's an optional extra for the V750. I believe there's a 3rd party liquid mount as well as better dry mounts available for the V700 but I haven't checked these out yet. There is quite a lot of talk about it on forums if you Google, one forum I found which talks about the liquid mount is here.

The best review site I've found to compare the two scanners is here. There's also a useful tutorial.

There's no paper manual - it comes on the CD and installs as an htm file to read with your browser. It's just over 3Mb unpacked, so I can mail it to you if you'd like to see it. I'm using Windows XP


PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Peter
This is really useful. The review you sent me to was great. It looks like this machine will be my choice as well. Get ready to see a whole lot of B+W images Cool


PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing all the talk of the V500 and V700 makes me think what about those of us on a tighter budget?
If we are looking at scanning 35mm are any of the "basic" offerings any good?
In checking consumer reviews people either really like or dislike Epson - other than going to another high end scanner has any body had any experience with any of the other brands? In peoples experience are Epson scanners ones that perform head and shoulders above anything else?


PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j.lukow wrote:
Seeing all the talk of the V500 and V700 makes me think what about those of us on a tighter budget?
If we are looking at scanning 35mm are any of the "basic" offerings any good?
In checking consumer reviews people either really like or dislike Epson - other than going to another high end scanner has any body had any experience with any of the other brands? In peoples experience are Epson scanners ones that perform head and shoulders above anything else?


Hi Jay! For scanning 35mm, the Nikon LS-30 is really, really fine. I've seen first-hand scanning results from 35mm slides and they were just sweet. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the LS-2000 and the latest Nikon scanners, but it sure does a hell of a job.

I think they go for about $275-$375 on eBay...

Something to look at for sure.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just taken the plunge and ordered a V500 for ?175 inc del. I had narrowed it down to the V500 and Canon 8800F, and the Epson won it through reading plenty of reviews!


PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hooper wrote:
I've just taken the plunge and ordered a V500 for ?175 inc del. I had narrowed it down to the V500 and Canon 8800F, and the Epson won it through reading plenty of reviews!


Good going, Hooper! I have the V700 coming, but I don't think it is basically any better than the V500; both have great reviews, so we can be hopeful!


PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was just down to cost really Laurence!!! I was really tempted by the V700, but as I also have a Nikon D200 on its way to me, couldn't really justify paying twice as much (the V700 retails for about ?340 here which is roughly $680)!!!


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hooper wrote:
It was just down to cost really Laurence!!! I was really tempted by the V700, but as I also have a Nikon D200 on its way to me, couldn't really justify paying twice as much (the V700 retails for about ?340 here which is roughly $680)!!!


Hooper, I paid $400 here.

If you ever need a high-cost item again, and it's cheaper in the US, just let me know...even with shipping to you at about $100, it might be a lot cheaper.

I know you will LOVE the V500!


PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the offer Laurence, i'll certainly bear that in mind!


PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I did it. Late last night I clicked a bid on a basic scanner - Epson 2400. Rolling Eyes I know there's been advice on getting a higher end scanner, but there is no way I can justify a couple hundred dollars on a scanner_the fact that I haven't even told my wife yet Shocked. At least at the low cost $40.00 USD shipping included . . . Though the one thing that one should remember about late night bidding is that details can sometimes be missed Embarassed I now have to look for a AC adapter 24VDC .8A epson Rolling Eyes At the price I paid I'm still ahead, I think Confused

Before the lectures start . . . I did my research and the reviews were very good - the 2400 was faster than the model with auto film feed for scans and many of the reviews involved people archiving family photos - hundreds of negs/slides and they were happy, so . . .


PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j.lukow wrote: Before the lectures start . . . I did my research and the reviews were very good - the 2400 was faster than the model with auto film feed for scans and many of the reviews involved people archiving family photos - hundreds of negs/slides and they were happy, so . . .

No lecture needed whatsoever! The 2400 is a VERY good scanner - I should know, I had the 2450 which is basically the same scanner. For 35mm, the 2450 WAS very good; I only upgraded because I have had "local" requests for beefy enlargements.

I believe that the 2400/2450 can deliver stunning results from 35mm up to 16x20. And medium format will simply blow you away.

You will have fun, and don't forget to find the time soon to let the wife know! It's not like you "sold the farm" to purchase the scanner. Besides, you could have had another "hobby" such as going to taverns, or some other destructive hobby. (That sounds pretty good... Cool ).


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j.lukow wrote:
Before the lectures start . . .

I think I did this since the threads revolved around the pricier scanners - so I didn't know what the opinions were of the smaller ones. ( Embarassed Should have probably asked . . . Embarassed ] At least it looks like my instincts weren't off Rolling Eyes Smile

Laurence wrote:
No lecture needed whatsoever! . . .
You will have fun, and don't forget to find the time soon to let the wife know! It's not like you "sold the farm" to purchase the scanner. Besides, you could have had another "hobby" such as going to taverns, or some other destructive hobby. . .

Thanks for lack of lecture Smile .
The comment about my wife not knowing was in jest as she trusts me to keep within my budget and she supports my hobby because it doesn't involved getting bombed at a bar. (Usually if I'm drinking, its with her Laughing - while enjoying a fire out back in the summer . . .)
Most of my acquisitions just pop up and I get a few questions . . .

Jim