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diy clean room or other method for lenses dust-free lenses
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:49 pm    Post subject: diy clean room or other method for lenses dust-free lenses Reply with quote

I have had some fìgood sucesses at repairing lenses so far, but what kept me from getting perfect resuslts is the common occurence of having dust entering lenses during repair, even when cleaned lenses are fitted back into apparently clean barrels.

Sometimes dust being reintroduced is substantial causing a considerable waste of time to improve the final results, which is never perfect.

I have read that professionals use a so called clean room system, a friend who is a pro chemist sugegsted me to use soem electrostatic device to clean the area.

I tried to find ideas online from diy people, but I have found nothing so far.

i wonder if somebody has ideas.

I was fancying to build some (easy) van der Graaf machine or stg similar, maybe also some electronic device to build from a kit or to hack into stg useful for this purpose, so far no concrete ideas though.

Any opinion?


PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Bio-engineering they use laminar flow cupboards .. I thought of building one but I can't afford an "absolute" filter Wink
Search google for the keyword, there are lots of pictures available, one with a front window and "working slit" seems best for avoiding the introduction of more dust by hands/clothing



edit: Orchid growers also use them as they sow orchid seeds onto agar gels and they need a clean environment. here is a home made one, th epage gives some directives
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I build guitars from base materials. I got started in the craft by spending 10 days with a seasoned old guy in northern California who had the nicest workshop I've ever seen. The part of the shop where he actually did the guitar assembly was in a room that was encased in heavy plastic, so it was hermetically sealed. Inside the room he had these huge electrostatic filters that he used to remove dust from the air. I didn't pay that close attention to his filtration setup because I was there to learn how to build. But I do remember that the filters were big. He had two or three of them in a shop that was probably 10 meters by 5 meters by 3 meters high. I don't know what he used as an exhaust fan for the filters. But I just did a quick google on "electrostatic filters" and got a lot of hits. The filters themselves are not that expensive. But then you'll need some sort of exhaust (and intake) systems to provide the circulation.

I've repaired lots of lenses and never had a problem with dust when I was putting them back together. I just made sure that I had clean surfaces and I have one of these Giotto rocket blowers that really push a lot of air. They do pretty well with blowing dust out of tiny areas.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YMMV ... I also use a clean space and a Gioto blower but that proves quite unsatisfactory for what I expect from "reasonably dust free". I've found that a good microfiber cloth (the ones that feel like "greasy" on the touch) clean dust much better than just blowing.
Besides, one does not need a "sterile" room, just a sort of cupboard with enough "elbow" room will probably be enough, even covering the top with a sealed in glass plate. The choice of the ventilator(s) in terms of air pressure and the type of filters to use may need the best or more attention.
I have wondered if an old and sufficiently large aquarium is not able to do the job because it can be well cleaned inside and avoiding moving around in an hectic/hyperkinetic way will at least reduce spreading around dust. JMHO


PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if you think all these cameras may be used for photo repair i'm fine with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPEa0Wc9iUc&index=11&list=PLSAF-4Et157KTrnaDbfHNYh6IL3H7lUJC&t=16s

This is a video i had but I wasn't convinced about the possibility of managing tiny screws behind a glass panel placed at a fixed height.

I can do it only by sticking my nose as close as possible to the item, with a very strongl light keeping the area well lighted.

I also have a need for very strong glasses (+ 3 diopters at least)

Maybe i could adapt one placing an even neon lighting system surrounding the top (but shield to the viewer).

That would solve my lighting problem.

Getting close according to variable distances might entail a moving top (capable of shuffling on a vertical axis).

For sure I would need a quality glass, rest might be built with ordinary materials.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we're not performing surgery or working with raw integrated circuit chips here.

A simple sheet plastic tent with electrostatic generator inside should be sufficiently dust free for lens assembly.

These are used also in construction industry for dust control -- also sold are tape-on zippers to use as doors.

There is similar challenge here in the wilderness -- there is an incredible amount of dust and pollen floating around -- cleaned surfaces become contaminated almost immediately.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are over-complicating things. Most dust will be easily dislodged from a clean surface with a rocket blower.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
I think you are over-complicating things. Most dust will be easily dislodged from a clean surface with a rocket blower.


Yeah and the friction of the air flow on the glass creates electro-static electricity on the object surface and have a wild guess what this is doing ? Ever looked on a sunny Autumn day with low sunshine rays in what dirty environment we live ? Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigel wrote:
Gardener wrote:
I think you are over-complicating things. Most dust will be easily dislodged from a clean surface with a rocket blower.


Yeah and the friction of the air flow on the glass creates electro-static electricity on the object surface and have a wild guess what this is doing ? Ever looked on a sunny Autumn day with low sunshine rays in what dirty environment we live ? Rolling Eyes


I have saved quite a lot of lenses, relatively speaking. I'm not overcomplicating. I have spent much more time cleaning lenses' dust and assorted particles than doing actual dismantling/remounting. Even after applying hydrogen peroxide to barrels , lenses (in cases of fungi), after a good rinse with isopropyl, I would put back my lenses with gloves to find inside a lot of dust.

There are no blowers, even specialized ones as you find in electronic repair shops are relatively effective (and costly).

No matter how clean were my gloves, hands, hair, tablecloth, room etc.

I would say that actual understanding of mechanisms, dismantling, fungus cleaning, remounting would on average take one tenth to one fourth of the whole time, the rest being cleaning dust that would pop up on apparently well cleaned lenses and barrels, even using perfectly washed cloths, optical grade cleaning tissues etc.

Quite irritating


PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we assume, then, the dust settles from the air onto the clean surfaces? That is the situation here. I can, for example, clean a camera sensor free of dust, but after moments, the surface has new dust. Yes, even after de-staticing the surface, dust from the air settles on it.

Folks have been here before asking for a solution. Previous suggestions included assembly in a steamy bathroom, for example, the idea being moist air contains less dust. Other suggestions include theones mentioned in this thread, such as electrostatic generator inside tent, continuous air filtering, and creating positive airflow, filtering incoming air. Clean rooms often have a series of successively cleaner chambers leading from outside to the innermost cleanroom. The floors are sometimes covered with sticky tape to grab at shoe dust.

Darkrooms posed similar problem regarding dust. Surely somebody knows about that?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigel wrote:
Ever looked on a sunny Autumn day with low sunshine rays in what dirty environment we live ? Rolling Eyes


Flashlight test you are hinting at is a complete and utter BS.

Rigel wrote:
Yeah and the friction of the air flow on the glass creates electro-static electricity on the object surface and have a wild guess what this is doing ?


The flow of air does not magically cease once the lens is put back together.

bghomofaber wrote:
I have saved quite a lot of lenses, relatively speaking. I'm not overcomplicating.


I do a couple of lenses a week, more when I don't get stuck with unfamiliar mechanics. Dust is the last thing I worry about.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the atmospheric dust ouside on a still no-wind night with headlamp only light source -- you'll see plenty of dust flowing through the beam of light.

Gardener wrote:
Flashlight test you are hinting at is a complete and utter BS.


Care to expand on that a little? Smile


Last edited by visualopsins on Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use HEPA filters now for air cleaning because of allergies. And I plan to use this device for a better camera sensor and critical lens assembly as well. But most times I do not care too much about internal lens cleanliness - for my hobby.
On work we have cleanrooms, but not at my site.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
Rigel wrote:
Ever looked on a sunny Autumn day with low sunshine rays in what dirty environment we live ? Rolling Eyes


Flashlight test you are hinting at is a complete and utter BS.

Rigel wrote:
Yeah and the friction of the air flow on the glass creates electro-static electricity on the object surface and have a wild guess what this is doing ?


The flow of air does not magically cease once the lens is put back together.

bghomofaber wrote:
I have saved quite a lot of lenses, relatively speaking. I'm not overcomplicating.


I do a couple of lenses a week, more when I don't get stuck with unfamiliar mechanics. Dust is the last thing I worry about.


Seriously ? ... I did not make any references to a "flashlight" test ... learn to read ... and if you have no clue on static electricity created IN a lens when you (dis)assemble it then you'd better not make comments ... or are the lenses you repair so flawed that air is passing/blowing through them ? .. and what sort of bogus explanation do you have to explain why some 40-50-60 years old lenses have zero dust inside ? more magic ? djeez ... oh well, it takes one of everything to make a world Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigel wrote:
Seriously ? ... learn to read ... you have no clue ... you'd better not make comments ... so flawed ... bogus explanation ... djeez ... Rolling Eyes


You know that there are professionals who can help you, right?


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Check out the atmospheric dust ouside on a still no-wind night with headlamp only light source -- you'll see plenty of dust flowing through the beam of light.

Gardener wrote:
Flashlight test you are hinting at is a complete and utter BS.


Care to expand on that a little? Smile


In short - it is great when you need to drive down the price of the lens you are trying to buy. Not so great when you are trying to evaluate real life performance.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
Check out the atmospheric dust ouside on a still no-wind night with headlamp only light source -- you'll see plenty of dust flowing through the beam of light.

Gardener wrote:
Flashlight test you are hinting at is a complete and utter BS.


Care to expand on that a little? Smile


In short - it is great when you need to drive down the price of the lens you are trying to buy. Not so great when you are trying to evaluate real life performance.


Thanks for reply!


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
Rigel wrote:
Seriously ? ... learn to read ... you have no clue ... you'd better not make comments ... so flawed ... bogus explanation ... djeez ... Rolling Eyes


You know that there are professionals who can help you, right?


Um, I think Rigel deserves a full quote instead out of context snips...and please let's not try to harm each other. Smile

Rigel wrote:
Seriously ? ... I did not make any references to a "flashlight" test ... learn to read ... and if you have no clue on static electricity created IN a lens when you (dis)assemble it then you'd better not make comments ... or are the lenses you repair so flawed that air is passing/blowing through them ? .. and what sort of bogus explanation do you have to explain why some 40-50-60 years old lenses have zero dust inside ? more magic ? djeez ... oh well, it takes one of everything to make a world Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am fairly certain that I reduced his reply to the things it was really about.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there are side comments meant for under the breath rather than spoken. This is perhaps the primary cause of communication problems, as oftentimes these have no standing, later found untrue.

Back to the sensor cleaning example -- after cleaning more dust would also appear after the mirror flipped. It is necessary to clean the mirror box before attempting to clean the sensor! This would correlate with thoroughly cleaning dust from lens body before mounting clean elements. That, however, is not the problem, as bghomofaber indicates her bodies are clean. This is dust settling from atmosphere....


PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
Rigel wrote:
Ever looked on a sunny Autumn day with low sunshine rays in what dirty environment we live ? Rolling Eyes


Flashlight test you are hinting at is a complete and utter BS.

Rigel wrote:
Yeah and the friction of the air flow on the glass creates electro-static electricity on the object surface and have a wild guess what this is doing ?


The flow of air does not magically cease once the lens is put back together.

bghomofaber wrote:
I have saved quite a lot of lenses, relatively speaking. I'm not overcomplicating.


I do a couple of lenses a week, more when I don't get stuck with unfamiliar mechanics. Dust is the last thing I worry about.



I have a passion for clear things. Lenses must be as clean as when they left factory. This may not be a problem for you, while other care.

It is just a question of different attitudes, i.e. inner vision.

Also, significant dust may reduce performance, surely it reduces lens value