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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:16 pm Post subject: Contemplating High End Macro Lenses- Advice Welcome |
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Kram wrote:
I just upgraded from a Canon 30D to a 60D and am contemplating upgrading to at least one new macro lens.
I use the older manual focus Nikkor 55/2.8 (+ M2 tube) and 105/2.8 and have had good results. Since upgrading to the 60D my success rate re: focus seems to be lower with both lenses. I've mostly overcome this by simply making myself work harder at it! 
I do almost all macro work hand-held.
Here's some of my macro work:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majorblack/
When I saw that Canon made a 100/2.8 L with IS, I started thinking...
and then I saw the Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 100mm f/2!
Such a decision.
Then there's the Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 50mm f/2!
The money bit:
Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 100/2: $1843
Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 50/2: $1283
Canon 100/2.8 IS: $979
There's also the same Canon 100mm lens w/o IS: $559 and I could add their ring flash (never have dome macro w/flash but it would eliminate the need for IS) for another $500.
Right now, I'm leaning toward either the Canon 100mm with IS or the Zeiss 50/2. But I'd eventually want an extension tube for it. Does Zeiss make one for that lens? Probably another $400?
Any advice welcome! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57849
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Forget expensive macro lenses, use a below+ enlarger lens+ proper lighting or/and reverese mount 50mm lens like Pancolar.
It will be good as than expensive ones or even better for fraction of cost.
Made with Vivitar 55.....
http://forum.mflenses.com/am-i-too-monomanic-another-bunch-of-macro-fly-shots-t27684,highlight,%2Bdiy+%2Bmacro.html
Proper lighting lot more important than lens.
http://forum.mflenses.com/toiletspider-with-the-vivitar-55mm-f2-8-11-macro-t27188,highlight,%2Bdiy+%2Bmacro.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/yellow-dung-fly-vivitar-55-2-8-11-macro-and-macro-diffuser-t27227,highlight,%2Bdiy+%2Bmacro.html
Finally in case of you if I have extra 1000 USD for a lens I sell my crop cameras and buy a full frame 5D2 any lens will be better on it I think .
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
Atilla, those are nice. Thanks.
Do you find my lighting not good?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majorblack/
Regarding buying "a full frame 5D2 any lens will be better on it I think", I was under the impression that FF cameras tend to be more challenging for lenses.
Regardless, I would have to buy new lenses for an 5D2 ad my EF lenses will not work on it, right? |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57849
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| Kram wrote: |
Atilla, those are nice. Thanks.
Do you find my lighting not good?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majorblack/
Regarding buying "a full frame 5D2 any lens will be better on it I think", I was under the impression that FF cameras tend to be more challenging for lenses.
Regardless, I would have to buy new lenses for an 5D2 ad my EF lenses will not work on it, right? |
I did see first two pages, nice images with good light , none of them macro like included links by me. I think for real macro need different light setup than usual and that is most important in whole process.
FF cameras more challenging right , with a simple 200 USD cost mirror surgery , no more challange all lenses will works. I have no clue about EF lenses, hopefully somebody will able to answer it.
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1300
Location: Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
sounds like a good excuse to find a bokina 
bout 275 seems to be the going rate, and there aren't many better macros. In addition the thing is fantastic at infinity, and the bokeh....well you know.
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
Attila, thanks for the info.
Several images on my page are certainly as macro as the spider and fly image but it's hard to tell that. Some subjects are maybe 5-7mm in size.
Here's one:
This bee is certainly macro (uncropped):
I'm not really interested in insects though. They were just there. If I were to go for bug macros I would certainly use flash. Anyone know of a reasonably priced ring flash? |
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s58y
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Posts: 131
Location: Eastern NY
Expire: 2013-09-10
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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s58y wrote:
| Attila wrote: |
.
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I have no clue about EF lenses, hopefully somebody will able to answer it. |
I've had decent results using the older Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro lens with Zerene Stacker:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/s58y/5783982195/sizes/o/in/photostream/
For many of the newer Canon DSLRs, the EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) feature means that, for static subjects, you can take longer exposures and avoid flash when shooting with live view active -- see discussions over on photomacrography.net
For true macro shots (closer to 1:1), I'm investigating the Olympus 80mm bellows lens, supposedly optimized for 1:1. The other Olympus bellows lenses seem to be highly regarded, too. For higher magnification, folks over at photomacrography.net suggest microscope objectives -- usually Nikon CF series or maybe Mitutoyo (metallurgical types).
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Last edited by s58y on Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
@s58y thanks. That site has some interesting things on it. |
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tikkathree
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 755
Location: Lovely Suffolk in Great Britain
Expire: 2012-12-28
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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tikkathree wrote:
| Kram wrote: |
Atilla, those are nice. Thanks.
Do you find my lighting not good?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/majorblack/
Regarding buying "a full frame 5D2 any lens will be better on it I think", I was under the impression that FF cameras tend to be more challenging for lenses.
Regardless, I would have to buy new lenses for an 5D2 ad my EF lenses will not work on it, right? |
Wrong. The 5DII takes EF mount lenses. But if you need to persuade your nearest and dearest that you need some L glass delete this paragraph and show her the next sentence.
Canon's 5DII will only work with hideously expensive L glass; using anything less is likely to invalidate your car insurance/cause your teeth to drop out/your hair turn grey and drop out/your bum to grow so big that choir boys will all point and laugh 
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35mm: Oly OM Pro bodies 1, 2, 3 and 4; Soviet RF kit |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10471
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
| Kram wrote: |
| I use the older manual focus Nikkor 55/2.8 (+ M2 tube) and 105/2.8 and have had good results. Since upgrading to the 60D my success rate re: focus seems to be lower with both lenses |
those lens should be quite good
you should look about the bad success rate, no reason to have diff from 30D
I guess you matte screen is not at the right distance
try those lens in liveview, you should get nice results
you can also put your 60D on tripod and compare pt of focus between the liveview to your screen matte
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
| tikkathree wrote: |
| Kram wrote: |
Atilla, those are nice. Thanks.
Regardless, I would have to buy new lenses for an 5D2 ad my EF lenses will not work on it, right? |
Wrong. The 5DII takes EF mount lenses. But if you need to persuade your nearest and dearest that you need some L glass delete this paragraph and show her the next sentence.
Canon's 5DII will only work with hideously expensive L glass; using anything less is likely to invalidate your car insurance/cause your teeth to drop out/your hair turn grey and drop out/your bum to grow so big that choir boys will all point and laugh |
Haha! Too funny! This may help my cause! |
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BRunner
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 705
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
If you are looking for top wide-open performance and faster lenses, there are no other options than Voigtlnder APO Lanthar 2.5/125 or Leica APO-Macro-Elmarit 2.8/100.
If you can stop-down to f5.6 or more for best performance (and with macro this is usual practice), then most modern macro lenses are fine. From f5.6 I can hardly tell differences between AME and latest AF version of Tamron 2.8/90.
Older macros are very sharp stopped down too, but they usually slightly lack contrast and color fidelity in comparison to newer lenses.
And Canon EF macro 2.8/100 non-L is said to be very good lens too.
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
poilu, thanks, very good advice. Will do.
Brunner, I'm afraid to even look at the prices on those lenses! You make a good point though. With the Canon 100/2.8 IS L, under my worst normal shooting conditions, it should get me easily to f/5.6. |
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ChromaticAberration
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 819
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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ChromaticAberration wrote:
Even without having any sort of experience in macro lenses I would say that if you are going to spend the big bucks then spend it on a lens with a nice focal length, just in case someday you find the need to shoot critters that get scared very easily because that would be most difficult with 55mm that probably will focus as close as what, 25cm? Some bugs will not let you get closer than 1m maybe.
While you are at it, if money is not an issue get something with native 1:1 ratio.
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Body: Fujifilm X-E1
Landscapes: Samyang 12mm f/2 NCS CS
Macro: Vivitar Series 1 105mm ƒ/2.5
Portrait: Helios-44 58mm ƒ/2.0
Low-light: SMC Takumar 50mm ƒ/1.4
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10532
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:14 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
I'm liking results I see from (enlarger lens) Nikkor EL 80/5.6 reversed on tubes or bellows. Examples: http://forum.mflenses.com/weird-plants-ii-t41267.html
I have 52B Tamron 90/2.8 & the Macro-Takumars. I think Tamron has less contrast and seems a little sharper, while Taks have better color and high contrast. Faster Tamron is easier to focus with low light. I suspect at higher magnifications Taks may be sharper, but that is unconfirmed.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
CA, very good advice, thank you. I would like the 1:1 option and my 55mm and extension work well. It's the longer focal length which I need the IS for.
visualopsins, you got some very good results from the EL lens. |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 4572
Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:36 am Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
your macros I find stunning, simply amazing that you did them handheld! Can't really imagine how but by many trials and error. For consistent results, and deeper dof if so desired, a tripod and focusing with live view certainly is the way to go
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my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
| kuuan wrote: |
| your macros I find stunning, simply amazing that you did them handheld! Can't really imagine how but by many trials and error. For consistent results, and deeper dof if so desired, a tripod and focusing with live view certainly is the way to go |
kuuan, thanks very much. I pride myself on being good at hand-holding. It's harder than most think. One day I will certainly try live view and get on a tripod.
Perhaps I'll try stacking too? |
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
I've had moderate success with stacking hand held live. Your work is much better by far ! I find it very difficult to hand hold and get accurate focus consistently 
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
Martyn, thanks man. That fly is juicy! |
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martyn_bannister
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 1151
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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martyn_bannister wrote:
| Kram wrote: |
| Martyn, thanks man. That fly is juicy! |
Have to say that what it was sitting on wasn't!!!! This was stacked using CombineZP - recommended! |
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ChromaticAberration
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 819
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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ChromaticAberration wrote:
I love the flower macros too but assuming you used very small apertures for deeper DOF, it is a mistery to me how you took them hand held =)
Oh, and I would definitively get that 100mm Makro-Planar, it must rock so badly!
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Body: Fujifilm X-E1
Landscapes: Samyang 12mm f/2 NCS CS
Macro: Vivitar Series 1 105mm ƒ/2.5
Portrait: Helios-44 58mm ƒ/2.0
Low-light: SMC Takumar 50mm ƒ/1.4
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a pнoтograpн ιѕ neιтнer тaĸen or ѕeιzed вy ғorce. ιт oғғerѕ ιтѕelғ υp. ιт ιѕ тнe pнoтo тнaт тaĸeѕ yoυ. one мυѕт noт тaĸe pнoтoѕ.” – нenrι carтιer-вreѕѕon |
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
CA, I rarely get to f/5.6 on my 55 and 100/2.8's. I like shallow DOF. I suppose a few were at f/8 or f/11 but that's rare for me. |
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kawasakiguy37
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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kawasakiguy37 wrote:
If you want high end, get a bellows with tilt shift (minolta auto bellows or maybe the Nikon PB4?) and a 1-2 GOOD lenses for macro. This could be a reversed enlarger for super close stuff, and then something longer for macro shots where you need more working distahce. The great thing about a bellows is you get to choose your magnification AND use whatever lens you want......and in addition, you can do tilt/shift for the proper DOF (if your bellows supports this).
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Nikkor
75-150 series E
105 2.0 DC
28 2.0 AIS
T-mount bellows + Spiratone 75mm Flat Field macro
300 4.0 CZJ F |
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1344
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
| kawasakiguy37 wrote: |
| If you want high end, get a bellows with tilt shift (minolta auto bellows or maybe the Nikon PB4?) and a 1-2 GOOD lenses for macro. This could be a reversed enlarger for super close stuff, and then something longer for macro shots where you need more working distahce. The great thing about a bellows is you get to choose your magnification AND use whatever lens you want......and in addition, you can do tilt/shift for the proper DOF (if your bellows supports this). |
Very good point regarding a tilt/shift bellows! I'll have to look into this, thanks.
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