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Complete list of Helios lenses - getting closer
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrsilva wrote:
Some say that the Helios 44-2 is not the sharpest edition of this lens, but I love my copy and it is very sharp.


(By the way: are there other editions of the 44.2 with a "normal" aperture ring?)



Maybe this one, but I'm not sure how the preset works.
http://digichar.com/unt/64424-helios_44___2_258_8901067_russian_soviet_ussr_lens_m42x1_mmz.html


PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Select the diaphragm you want to use for the picture, turn the ring with the red arrow and the lens is diaphragmed to the selected f stop.
If you select f16 you can use the red arrow ring to change continously the aperture of the lens from f2 to f16.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

antico wrote:
Select the diaphragm you want to use for the picture, turn the ring with the red arrow and the lens is diaphragmed to the selected f stop.
If you select f16 you can use the red arrow ring to change continously the aperture of the lens from f2 to f16.


Thank's,
but... how can you be sure of what f stop do you select if the scale is inverted?
That's what I was pointing. The only f stops you can be sure are the f/2 or the f/16 because they are on the end of the scale.
To choose any other exact f stop on this model of Helios 44-2 is a guessing game.

Apart from the strange diaphragm ring, I'm very happy with this lens.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if this applies to 44-2, I'm referring to 44-2 with body of 44-3. When you select the stop on the ring with numers (2, 2.8, 4, etc) the ring that actuates the diaphragm is limited to that maximum f number. If you select f4 on the front ring, you can't diaphragm more than that with the red arrow ring. That's how you can now what f number you are using.
When you select f16, you can have a continous control of the diaphragm with the red arrow ring, but I think that you can't exactly know what f stop is the lens if it's not totally open or closed (f2 or f16)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBtjUGwF2Lw


PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrsilva wrote:
antico wrote:
Select the diaphragm you want to use for the picture, turn the ring with the red arrow and the lens is diaphragmed to the selected f stop.
If you select f16 you can use the red arrow ring to change continously the aperture of the lens from f2 to f16.


Thank's,
but... how can you be sure of what f stop do you select if the scale is inverted?
That's what I was pointing. The only f stops you can be sure are the f/2 or the f/16 because they are on the end of the scale.
To choose any other exact f stop on this model of Helios 44-2 is a guessing game.

Apart from the strange diaphragm ring, I'm very happy with this lens.

The preset part is accurate, you preset it to the f stop you want, say f8, then turn the aperture ring till it stops, ta-da! f8.
Only when you use it from f16 to f2 as a step-less aperture does it get a bit confusing if you want to set a specific f stop, I use it this way often, like when I want to set the DOF to cover a subject, I'll just turn the ring till I see the whole subject is sharp, I couldn't care less what the actual f stop is, if you do want to know, hold the aperture ring in its position, and turn the preset ring till it stops, then you can read off of it what the f stop is.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
jrsilva wrote:
antico wrote:
Select the diaphragm you want to use for the picture, turn the ring with the red arrow and the lens is diaphragmed to the selected f stop.
If you select f16 you can use the red arrow ring to change continously the aperture of the lens from f2 to f16.


Thank's,
but... how can you be sure of what f stop do you select if the scale is inverted?
That's what I was pointing. The only f stops you can be sure are the f/2 or the f/16 because they are on the end of the scale.
To choose any other exact f stop on this model of Helios 44-2 is a guessing game.

Apart from the strange diaphragm ring, I'm very happy with this lens.

The preset part is accurate, you preset it to the f stop you want, say f8, then turn the aperture ring till it stops, ta-da! f8.
Only when you use it from f16 to f2 as a step-less aperture does it get a bit confusing if you want to set a specific f stop, I use it this way often, like when I want to set the DOF to cover a subject, I'll just turn the ring till I see the whole subject is sharp, I couldn't care less what the actual f stop is, if you do want to know, hold the aperture ring in its position, and turn the preset ring till it stops, then you can read off of it what the f stop is.


Thank you for the tips.

My preset ring is a little stiff to be changed often.
But I've set it to open between f/2 and f/2.8 only.
These are the apertures I want to use to get the most of the swirl bokeh.
At f/2.8 I get sharp head and shoulders or half body portraits with swirl bokeh on the background.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another Helios : Helios-89 30mm/1.9



Sample with this lens on A7 (cover FF with some vigneting and bad IQ on edges)



PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw that rare beast on ebay too late... HELIOS-1 f1.5/7.5cm (75mm) made by GOI in 1951, for reproduction
(f1.5 for reproduction is VERY unusual, wonder why ...)




PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! I can't find it on ebay in completed sales.
Maybe specific reproduction? I have an R-Helios also, but modern (1989) 100mm/2, used for photo of osciloscope.
Both are long body with optical diaphragm very different from Helios usual type.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
Nice! I can't find it on ebay in completed sales.
Maybe specific reproduction? I have an R-Helios also, but modern (1989) 100mm/2, used for photo of osciloscope.
Both are long body with optical diaphragm very different from Helios usual type.


I assume you are referring to a Double Gauss type (actually a 6e/4g Plasmat)?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
BurstMox wrote:
Nice! I can't find it on ebay in completed sales.
Maybe specific reproduction? I have an R-Helios also, but modern (1989) 100mm/2, used for photo of osciloscope.
Both are long body with optical diaphragm very different from Helios usual type.


I assume you are referring to a Double Gauss type (actually a 6e/4g Plasmat)?


Yes!
I think you have the same source of information about this R-Helios (GOI 1963 book, and Volossov book at page 460), we can see the optical schem.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
kds315* wrote:
BurstMox wrote:
Nice! I can't find it on ebay in completed sales.
Maybe specific reproduction? I have an R-Helios also, but modern (1989) 100mm/2, used for photo of osciloscope.
Both are long body with optical diaphragm very different from Helios usual type.


I assume you are referring to a Double Gauss type (actually a 6e/4g Plasmat)?


Yes!
I think you have the same source of information about this R-Helios (GOI 1963 book, and Volossov book at page 460), we can see the optical schem.


Thanks for reminding me, indeed Volossov shows the diagram in his book (bottom of image):



It is actually a 8e/5g modified Double Gauss design, he inserted an achromatic doublet in front!!


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this what I think it is? A combination of multiple lenses...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Very-Rare-Helios-44-m39-KMZ-58mm-F2-0-Lilac-Coated-0302957-8-blades-/231867241188


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure looks that way.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been built with 2 (or more) Helios 44 lenses. A silver one and a black one, ah have both versions. Looks like the internals fae a black 44 - lens elements, barrel and aperture; preset, aperture and focusing rings fae the silver version.

Whether he's trying tae pretend that it's a rarity or he believes it, doesn't really matter (apart fae the ridiculous price). A nice clean lens but not unique in any way and worth less than half what he's asking... Thank You Dog


PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always nice to have confirmation.
I've been thinking about making my own hybrid 44 with 13 blade aperture(the one that has nasty flare), with 44-2 optics, I'm assuming the 44-2 will be the one most likely to have similar shaped optics, the optical blocks may swap easily, I don't know...
Then I don't have to risk my 0000 44 when I have a desire to shoot it with its nice aperture.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,
Do you know the story behind 4xxxx MMZ H-44s ? Like this one :
The logo is not the same as early MMZ ones and some says it could not exist a 1964 MMZ silver as it is mentioned in the list...


Lightshow, optical block should swap easy btw 13 blades and later h44-2 but i have found that silver KMZ optics have better colors and render (i could say vintage character) than 70's h44-2. Definition is nearly the same if you select your 44-2 well. If you want a perfect working h-44 with 13 blades, you should find a good more common silver 0xxx h-44 and just swap front elements (very easy with spanner w) and rear block (only screwing/unscrewing entire block operation) on your 13 blades aperture block.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musashichan wrote:
Hi guys,
Do you know the story behind 4xxxx MMZ H-44s ? Like this one :
The logo is not the same as early MMZ ones and some says it could not exist a 1964 MMZ silver as it is mentioned in the list...


Lightshow, optical block should swap easy btw 13 blades and later h44-2 but i have found that silver KMZ optics have better colors and render (i could say vintage character) than 70's h44-2. Definition is nearly the same if you select your 44-2 well. If you want a perfect working h-44 with 13 blades, you should find a good more common silver 0xxx h-44 and just swap front elements (very easy with spanner w) and rear block (only screwing/unscrewing entire block operation) on your 13 blades aperture block.


Lens itself looks genuine, but I think he swaped lenses. Usualy coating is purple blue.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah have a 44-2 MMZ lens with that same coloured coating, so it may be genuine - given the amount of crossover parts used in camera and lens construction in the FSU.Also have a 44-4 with that same colouring. It's known that each factory often deviated from the "standard" as they all developed different coatings since they were autonomous units, unlike most modern, multinational companies where the homogenous unit rules. Cool


PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAo2 wrote:
Ah have a 44-2 MMZ lens with that same coloured coating, so it may be genuine - given the amount of crossover parts used in camera and lens construction in the FSU.Also have a 44-4 with that same colouring. It's known that each factory often deviated from the "standard" as they all developed different coatings since they were autonomous units, unlike most modern, multinational companies where the homogenous unit rules. Cool


Well, it's quite hard to find out what is true or not about coating on H-44 since it's very easy to swap lens, and also because the early purple coating was very prone to get microscopic scratch, from cleaning for exemple. Today is hard to find clean purple coating. So I guess many seller swap the front lens (at least) with usual H44-2 or H44-M4 to sell their lens in mint condition.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musashichan wrote:
Hi guys,
Lightshow, optical block should swap easy btw 13 blades and later h44-2 but i have found that silver KMZ optics have better colors and render (i could say vintage character) than 70's h44-2. Definition is nearly the same if you select your 44-2 well. If you want a perfect working h-44 with 13 blades, you should find a good more common silver 0xxx h-44 and just swap front elements (very easy with spanner w) and rear block (only screwing/unscrewing entire block operation) on your 13 blades aperture block.

I have a 13 blade version, of which I don't like the purple flare it produces, so the reason for the swap.


Last edited by Lightshow on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
- MMZ lenses with serial number beginning by "N40xxx", "N50xxx" or "N60xxx" are likely made in 1964, 1965 and 1966 (first number of sn very likely means year of 196x decade)


i have 3 mmz made helios44 and all of them came with a body with exact pattern (50/1965|60/1966|80/1968) so that must be it.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would say that the first silver MMZ where made in 1964 and not 1965. For the coating, that would be a mystery, if someone could tell if you can find other 4xxxxx MMZ silver 44 to see the difference...


PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just received a 5xxx MMZ Helios-44 wih the same coating, so this 4xxxx can be an original.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
Musashichan wrote:
Hi guys,
Lightshow, optical block should swap easy btw 13 blades and later h44-2 but i have found that silver KMZ optics have better colors and render (i could say vintage character) than 70's h44-2. Definition is nearly the same if you select your 44-2 well. If you want a perfect working h-44 with 13 blades, you should find a good more common silver 0xxx h-44 and just swap front elements (very easy with spanner w) and rear block (only screwing/unscrewing entire block operation) on your 13 blades aperture block.

I have a 13 blade version, of which I don't like the purple flare it produces, so the reason for the swap.


I just tried swapping elements between my 00 13blade KMZ and a KMZ 44-2
The front 2 elements from the 44-2 fit in the 00 just fine, but the 00's didn't fit in the 44-2, not a big deal, I then tried swapping the rear cell, not a chance, the cell is designed differently, so I took a few shots with the 44-2 front and 00 rear, IQ was not as good as either lens was prior to the change, so this experiment will have to wait till I find a standard silver 44, or find a 000 44 to use so my 0000 can stay at home.