Coloured filters

[peterqd]

A yellow filter arrived with a camera recently and set me thinking - I've never experimented with colour filters before and I don't really know how to use them. Obviously they only work with B&W film and I guess the yellow one will enhance the blue of the sky or water. What effects do red and green filters create? And are they worth using at all if Photoshop does the same thing?
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Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G

[Rob Leslie]

Coloured filters and Graduated ND filters are pointless when shooting digital. All such adjustments can be done with the RAW file.
You do need Polarising filter and ND for better control of exposure. If you are creative various special effect filters such as soft focus, star, chromatic etc are great fun.
If you shoot with lighting (Flash) colour gels are also an essential for balancing light temps and effects.
For film Yes still shoot with BW film with your colour filters.

PS Red filters are again BW film ones used for even darker and more dramatic skies (Much better than Yellow) Green filters (Again BW) are used to improve skin tones.
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Pentax K10D & K100D. Many Tamron Adaptall SP lenses, Fujinon f4.5 400mm. A loved Lens Baby 2, Lubitel triplet +++ and many many film cameras. Mainly a Digital user.
http://roblesliephotography.blogspot.com

[ChrisLilley]

Photoshop won't do the same thing if you are starting with a scanned B+W film.

For digital, assuming you shoot raw, then coloured filters merely reduce the light and the post-processing flexibility without helping at all.

Anyone want a red Nikon 52mm filter? (Came with my 20mm f/4)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t. Key: Ai-P, Ai, Ais, Ai'ed, pre-Ai
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Арсенал (Arsenal) Мир-24Н (Mir-24N) 35mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai (full equipment list)

[peterqd]

Thanks Rob & Chris, it was film I was thinking of. It's interesting that PS can't replicate the digital effect with a scanned film image. I already have a couple of circular polarising filters.

I think I'll take a few test shots with the yellow filter and see what I get (when we have some blue sky of course!). Thanks for the help.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G

[themoleman342]

[ChrisLilley]

[peterqd]

[themoleman342]

I know this is super super obvious but color filters only work on pan B&W films (panchromatic). If someone is new to film I've found that they often mistake kodak's "professional" black and white (chromogenic) that you could pick up in the super-market with actual B&W film. It's a C-41 emulsion process...I'm fairly certain color filters won't work on that...or at least not have the same effect
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35mm: zenit B + zenit 122 + praktica FX + sears (ricoh) TLS - chinon 2.8/28mm, mir 10A 3.5/28, pentacon 3.5/30, mir-1 2.8/37, mamiya/sekor 1.4/50, simlar 1.5/50 (ltm m39 - macro work), tessar 2.8/50, domiplan 2.8/50, industar 50-2 3.5/50, takumar 2/55, sears 1.4/55, helios 44-2 2/58, hanimex macro zoom 3.5/28-80, tair 11A 2.8/135, jupiter 21m 4/200

Med Format: Ikoflex II - triotar 3.5/75

Large Format: 4x5 Custom Pinhole - Wide Angle 75mm

[F16SUNSHINE]

Actually I've had very good luck with green filters and northern European skin tones. The green filter helps to darken and bring tone to otherwise washed out "white" skin. It can go a long way to add character to an otherwise flat facial tone. Because "white" skin is more in the red/orange color zone than blue/green. Using a green filter for portraits in combination with a held back development (minus) can be especially effective. The B+W films I use are all modern ( tmax, neopan, rollei r3 etc). I have to say that the ACE statements are a bit to bold. You can use green filters to good effect.

[themoleman342]

good to know about green filters, I apologize to Rob for my disagreement than, I had just never heard of them for portraiture outside of incandescent lighting...sounds as though it may emphasize some of the 'imperfections' with the skin however. What exactly does it "darken and bring tone to"?
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35mm: zenit B + zenit 122 + praktica FX + sears (ricoh) TLS - chinon 2.8/28mm, mir 10A 3.5/28, pentacon 3.5/30, mir-1 2.8/37, mamiya/sekor 1.4/50, simlar 1.5/50 (ltm m39 - macro work), tessar 2.8/50, domiplan 2.8/50, industar 50-2 3.5/50, takumar 2/55, sears 1.4/55, helios 44-2 2/58, hanimex macro zoom 3.5/28-80, tair 11A 2.8/135, jupiter 21m 4/200

Med Format: Ikoflex II - triotar 3.5/75

Large Format: 4x5 Custom Pinhole - Wide Angle 75mm

[Rob Leslie]

[F16SUNSHINE]

[Nesster]

[Rob Leslie]

‘However, doing a fake IR B&W conversion on a red filtered original does have some promise. But probably isn't the best way to go.’

No I don’t think it is.
My own understanding of it is – If you are doing a conversion of a RAW file you can put whatever colour balance you wish on the original. IMO The best way to do it.
If not working in RAW you are limited on any conversion but when shooting the image you would have to turn off Auto colour balance to see any effect from the filter.
When converting a JPEG via Channel mixer you could give any of three channels preference but expect serious degrading when going far from the norm.
Doing a fake IR with a JPEG isn’t on due to the extremes of channel adjustment (Usually around -100 blue). Pretty easy in RAW though and much better than any effect from a filter.
But not as good as having the IR filter removed from the sensor.
By putting a colour filter on your K100 the only thing you could expect is some slight loss of image quality due to the piece of glass in front of your lens!
IMO the way to make any real changes (Not IR) is to use a mixed coloured light sources. For example daylight and flash fitted with a warm gel.
_________________
Pentax K10D & K100D. Many Tamron Adaptall SP lenses, Fujinon f4.5 400mm. A loved Lens Baby 2, Lubitel triplet +++ and many many film cameras. Mainly a Digital user.
http://roblesliephotography.blogspot.com

[lulalake]

About fake IR and filters.

I’ve not seen one, not one “fake” IR process that comes very close to a “real” IR shot. The issue is that certain dyes reflect IR very well and other dyes are very poor IR reflectors to the point of being from almost to completely transparent to IR. (It's completely unpredictable)

Here’s a quick example: (real IR shot, Hoya R72 filter, Sony F828 IR converted camera))



Nature gives the same results. Some Pine trees are very poor IR reflectors and will turn out very dark in IR shots where deciduous trees and many other plants tend to be excellent reflectors and show up as white or very light.

If attempting “fake” IR and one uses a deep red filter all green shows up very dark or if one uses a green filter, all green will show up as light. There are a number of fake IR conversions out there. None work very well and some cost money.

At this time, due mainly to digital technology, IR is going places that IR film couldn't approach..If you like, please check out my IR forum for some examples of this.

www.irphotocom.com

Be forewarned however that many shots are experimental. This is not your mothers IR shooting.

Cheers

Jules
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Heisenberg may have slept here.