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AlessioG
Joined: 11 May 2015 Posts: 29
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 |
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AlessioG wrote:
Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000
What do you think?
It seems to has a second name plate under the first, but I can't uncrew the first one.
Why to put a second name plate with such a strange serial number?
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 351
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
For collection value, I guess.
How much did you pay for it? _________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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Gamera
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 86 Location: Scandinavia
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Gamera wrote:
There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name. |
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AlessioG
Joined: 11 May 2015 Posts: 29
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:47 am Post subject: |
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AlessioG wrote:
Langstrum wrote: |
For collection value, I guess.
How much did you pay for it? |
As a regular Biotar 58/2 in moderate condition, less or more
Gamera wrote: |
There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name. |
Yes I know. But I wonder why they choosed such a 7 zeros SN |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I think you could double the usual price here. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
AlessioG wrote: |
Langstrum wrote: |
For collection value, I guess.
How much did you pay for it? |
As a regular Biotar 58/2 in moderate condition, less or more
Gamera wrote: |
There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name. |
Yes I know. But I wonder why they choosed such a 7 zeros SN |
There are many examples with a second ID ring, but I've not seen one with only 0's, if legit, it may have significant value to collectors.
As to why all 0's? A mock-up/prototype used for either internal and/or external approval processes(they could have engraved "SERIAL#" just as easily), that eventually found it's way to the market place. An engineering prototype might have fewer zeros, 001, 002...
It would be interesting to see the underlying serial #. to help date it. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7553 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Prototypes usually have serials. The one made for display can have null serial, special serials, or without any serial.
Here is an example of Zeiss lens without null serial:
https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/8845871-unique-no-0000000-carl-zeiss-jena-sonnar-1-2-5cm-prototype-without-lenses _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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AlessioG
Joined: 11 May 2015 Posts: 29
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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AlessioG wrote:
Thanks all.
I found another CZJ Biotar 0000000
http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_jp/pentacon-praktica/35mm-lenses/carl-zeiss-jena-f-praktina-58-2-biotar-sku24989-27.html
This one has not working diaphgram (fixed?) |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
Gamera wrote: |
There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name. |
Yep. And tended to be branded Jena, per this one. So it's East German. |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 |
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Gerald wrote:
AlessioG wrote: |
Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000
What do you think?
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Maybe the previous Biotar in the production line had serial number 9999999 so there was an overflow ... _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
lolz _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16541 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Then there were will be more of those; no coincidence this was then.
I'm sure the true serial no is beneath on the true front ring. Could
have been a lens to show at exhibits, I remember that Zeiss West
did similar... _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10528 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 |
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visualopsins wrote:
Gerald wrote: |
AlessioG wrote: |
Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000
What do you think?
|
Maybe the previous Biotar in the production line had serial number 9999999 so there was an overflow ... |
Must be a keeper; I don't see many on eBay! _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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newst wrote:
The legal disputes between Zeiss Oberkochen and Zeiss Jena were very long and messy. Usually, the legal rulings of neighboring countries differed significantly and an importer would have to modify the nameplate (a red box with a cross in it camouflaging a red T for example) or replace/cover it completely.
These changes were not performed by Zeiss but by the individual importers. There were no rules governing what the final adaptation had to look like as long as whatever specific banned item was removed. I can imagine an importer buying a lot of name rings with all zeros rather than pay to have them sequentially numbered.
I doubt that the serial number adds any value to the lens. _________________ Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
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crouu
Joined: 02 Jan 2018 Posts: 12
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:45 am Post subject: |
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crouu wrote:
Maybe to set up the stamping machine? Then the plate got attached to a lens and taken home by an employee?
I feel more convinced by the idea that 00 eg helios are pre production test pieces rather than for VIPs etc (VIP would acquire Leitz/Zeiss Oberkochen through diplomatic connections non?) |
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