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AlessioG
Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 |
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AlessioG wrote:
Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000
What do you think?
It seems to has a second name plate under the first, but I can't uncrew the first one.
Why to put a second name plate with such a strange serial number?
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
For collection value, I guess.
How much did you pay for it?
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Gamera
Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Posts: 86
Location: Scandinavia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Gamera wrote:
There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name. |
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AlessioG
Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:47 am Post subject: |
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AlessioG wrote:
| Langstrum wrote: |
For collection value, I guess.
How much did you pay for it? |
As a regular Biotar 58/2 in moderate condition, less or more
| Gamera wrote: |
| There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name. |
Yes I know. But I wonder why they choosed such a 7 zeros SN |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 3693
Location: Slovenia, EU
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I think you could double the usual price here.
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3669
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
| AlessioG wrote: |
| Langstrum wrote: |
For collection value, I guess.
How much did you pay for it? |
As a regular Biotar 58/2 in moderate condition, less or more
| Gamera wrote: |
| There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name. |
Yes I know. But I wonder why they choosed such a 7 zeros SN |
There are many examples with a second ID ring, but I've not seen one with only 0's, if legit, it may have significant value to collectors.
As to why all 0's? A mock-up/prototype used for either internal and/or external approval processes(they could have engraved "SERIAL#" just as easily), that eventually found it's way to the market place. An engineering prototype might have fewer zeros, 001, 002...
It would be interesting to see the underlying serial #. to help date it.
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7553
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Prototypes usually have serials. The one made for display can have null serial, special serials, or without any serial.
Here is an example of Zeiss lens without null serial:
https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/8845871-unique-no-0000000-carl-zeiss-jena-sonnar-1-2-5cm-prototype-without-lenses
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AlessioG
Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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AlessioG wrote:
Thanks all.
I found another CZJ Biotar 0000000
http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_jp/pentacon-praktica/35mm-lenses/carl-zeiss-jena-f-praktina-58-2-biotar-sku24989-27.html
This one has not working diaphgram (fixed?) |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017
Posts: 1445
Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
| Gamera wrote: |
| There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name. |
Yep. And tended to be branded Jena, per this one. So it's East German. |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Posts: 1196
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 |
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Gerald wrote:
| AlessioG wrote: |
Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000
What do you think?
|
Maybe the previous Biotar in the production line had serial number 9999999 so there was an overflow ... 
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 3669
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
lolz
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 16541
Location: Weinheim, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Then there were will be more of those; no coincidence this was then.
I'm sure the true serial no is beneath on the true front ring. Could
have been a lens to show at exhibits, I remember that Zeiss West
did similar...
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10528
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 |
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visualopsins wrote:
| Gerald wrote: |
| AlessioG wrote: |
Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000
What do you think?
|
Maybe the previous Biotar in the production line had serial number 9999999 so there was an overflow ... |
Must be a keeper; I don't see many on eBay!
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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 617
Location: Troy, MI USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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newst wrote:
The legal disputes between Zeiss Oberkochen and Zeiss Jena were very long and messy. Usually, the legal rulings of neighboring countries differed significantly and an importer would have to modify the nameplate (a red box with a cross in it camouflaging a red T for example) or replace/cover it completely.
These changes were not performed by Zeiss but by the individual importers. There were no rules governing what the final adaptation had to look like as long as whatever specific banned item was removed. I can imagine an importer buying a lot of name rings with all zeros rather than pay to have them sequentially numbered.
I doubt that the serial number adds any value to the lens.
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crouu
Joined: 02 Jan 2018
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:45 am Post subject: |
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crouu wrote:
Maybe to set up the stamping machine? Then the plate got attached to a lens and taken home by an employee?
I feel more convinced by the idea that 00 eg helios are pre production test pieces rather than for VIPs etc (VIP would acquire Leitz/Zeiss Oberkochen through diplomatic connections non?)  |
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