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Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 Reply with quote

Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000

What do you think?

It seems to has a second name plate under the first, but I can't uncrew the first one.
Why to put a second name plate with such a strange serial number?






PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For collection value, I guess.

How much did you pay for it?


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Langstrum wrote:
For collection value, I guess.

How much did you pay for it?


As a regular Biotar 58/2 in moderate condition, less or more

Gamera wrote:
There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name.


Yes I know. But I wonder why they choosed such a 7 zeros SN


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you could double the usual price here.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlessioG wrote:
Langstrum wrote:
For collection value, I guess.

How much did you pay for it?


As a regular Biotar 58/2 in moderate condition, less or more

Gamera wrote:
There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name.


Yes I know. But I wonder why they choosed such a 7 zeros SN


There are many examples with a second ID ring, but I've not seen one with only 0's, if legit, it may have significant value to collectors.
As to why all 0's? A mock-up/prototype used for either internal and/or external approval processes(they could have engraved "SERIAL#" just as easily), that eventually found it's way to the market place. An engineering prototype might have fewer zeros, 001, 002...
It would be interesting to see the underlying serial #. to help date it.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototypes usually have serials. The one made for display can have null serial, special serials, or without any serial.

Here is an example of Zeiss lens without null serial:
https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/8845871-unique-no-0000000-carl-zeiss-jena-sonnar-1-2-5cm-prototype-without-lenses


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all.

I found another CZJ Biotar 0000000

http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_jp/pentacon-praktica/35mm-lenses/carl-zeiss-jena-f-praktina-58-2-biotar-sku24989-27.html

This one has not working diaphgram (fixed?)


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gamera wrote:
There was a legal dispute of the brand names between east and west Zeiss. Once the eastern exports were sold in western market without the brand name.


Yep. And tended to be branded Jena, per this one. So it's East German.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 Reply with quote

AlessioG wrote:
Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000

What do you think?


Maybe the previous Biotar in the production line had serial number 9999999 so there was an overflow ... Laugh 1


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lolz


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlessioG wrote:
Thanks all.

I found another CZJ Biotar 0000000

http://www.leicashop.com/vintage_jp/pentacon-praktica/35mm-lenses/carl-zeiss-jena-f-praktina-58-2-biotar-sku24989-27.html

This one has not working diaphgram (fixed?)


Then there were will be more of those; no coincidence this was then.
I'm sure the true serial no is beneath on the true front ring. Could
have been a lens to show at exhibits, I remember that Zeiss West
did similar...


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Carl Zeiss jena Biotar 58/2, sn 0000000 Reply with quote

Gerald wrote:
AlessioG wrote:
Hi guys! I've bought a Pentacon F with a CZJ Biotar 58/2 export version.
It has nice serial number: 0000000

What do you think?


Maybe the previous Biotar in the production line had serial number 9999999 so there was an overflow ... Laugh 1


Must be a keeper; I don't see many on eBay!


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The legal disputes between Zeiss Oberkochen and Zeiss Jena were very long and messy. Usually, the legal rulings of neighboring countries differed significantly and an importer would have to modify the nameplate (a red box with a cross in it camouflaging a red T for example) or replace/cover it completely.

These changes were not performed by Zeiss but by the individual importers. There were no rules governing what the final adaptation had to look like as long as whatever specific banned item was removed. I can imagine an importer buying a lot of name rings with all zeros rather than pay to have them sequentially numbered.

I doubt that the serial number adds any value to the lens.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe to set up the stamping machine? Then the plate got attached to a lens and taken home by an employee?

I feel more convinced by the idea that 00 eg helios are pre production test pieces rather than for VIPs etc (VIP would acquire Leitz/Zeiss Oberkochen through diplomatic connections non?) Smile