Blind opinion

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

I would like your blind opinion on two images:

http://www.orio.ws/temp/_MG_3085.jpg

http://www.orio.ws/temp/_MG_3090.jpg

Caution these are large files. You may want to right-click and "save as" rather than viewing directly.

I will not tell you about the lens now. I only say that these are the non-sharpened output of the 5D, converted to JPEG from the original RAW files.

Let me know what you think.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

No idea !

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

Second one has more contrast than the first but has more CA in certain areas.

And you need to clean your 5D's sensor - you can see marks at the top right hand corner of the first image and all along the top of the second.

Take a look at the bottom of the sensor and you may see the marks. Wink

Ballu · Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject:

I have noticed from my "little" photography experience, most of the lenses botched up the leaves... even the modern (I havent used more than few) lenses makes the lines so sharp as pencil drawn picture.
But the second picture is really great exp the way tree leaves are captured. I have seen same characteristics with my CZ Planar 50/1.7 lens. Even wide open the lens was showing that way (as yours).
But again, I havent used many lenses, plus there are lot of third party manufacturer who (to some extent) copied Zeiss and Leica design.
My guess is either CZ Planar or some of its clone...

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

I see it on the brown rail along the balcony - it also extends into the blue window blinds and is the same colour and can be seen in the shadow area of that lip at the bottom of the balcony.

Orangey at the top and blueish at the shadow edge.

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Jigt · Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 412 Location: Belgium

I see some ca (purple fringing) on the side of the top left window.

Guido

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Really I would like to know this: is it normal that CA appears only where the contrast is high and disappears where it is low?
Or is that bleeding, a different kind of optical phenomenon? Could it be perhaps color information bleeding from the sensor cells that receive it, to the nearby cells?
Does this hypothesis make any sense?

I ask because I remember to have read time ago an article about the different bleeding effects, and that there was only one that was to be called color aberration , while the others were of different nature... but currently, I can not remember which were the differences.

To my memory I can not recall a CA line that stops this way where there is a different background. But I would like to hear what you think about it, on your experience.

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

Not sure about CA/bleeding question. I can see what you mean in the balconies pic 1, and as it's not particularly close the edge I would say it's probably due to these areas being slightly off-focus. It looks to me like you focussed on the farther building.

Can I stick my neck out and say there is also the old problem of moire affecting the balcony railings and the faience tiles on the end of the building on the right.

I could be wrong, but I don't think this is a Russian lens. And I don't think you would use anything other than the Planar among German lenses, so I will guess it's an old Nikkor.

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

I have a Yashica 635 TLR for which I have the proper Yashinon WA attachment and this device exhibits definite CA on high contrast extreme subject edges etc. at the edges, but improves greatly as you near the centre. This effect is clearly visible if one fits the WA device to the viewing lens of the TLR but as I've not long got it, I haven't had a chance to take any test shots. Colour-wise though, the CA is orange/yellow on the bright side and blue/purple on the dark side. As such, the CA here in my example is definitely optical.

Of course, there's always the question of monitor type and calibration to consider as well....

In any case, the question has to be asked: would these aberrations be noticed on a 300dpi A4 print or an A3 for that matter?

If not, especially for an A3, then there's no problem at all.

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

There is a strange thing about this lens. If you look at picture one, first row of balconies from the left (the row that has only the wall as the background) you will see that something similar to color aberration goes all around the edged of the fence. It is red in all parts. This looks strange to me as usually color aberration is of one color only on one side.

But the strange things continue, if you look at second row of balconies you will notice the same thing but with a difference: it does happen when the backgruond is the wall, but when the background is the sky, the phenomenon stops. Abruptly. Neatly. Now isn't that strange. I never saw color aberration to do a thing like that.

What's more: color aberration usually happens more on out of focus areas and on the edges of the image. And, as I said, on one side only.
Here, the phenomenon happens on two sides. It happens ni perfectly focused areas. And it happens in the centre of the frame, or anyway, far from the edges.

This is why I would like to hear opinions. I would like to know if I am looking at an unusual form of color aberration, or if it's another optical defect with another name

@ Peter. Yes about the moire. When I was complaining about it I got angry messages from people saying that I should not complain about the moire of the 5D. Some even said it did not exist for them, if not minimally. So in order to avoid continuous polemics I stopped from mentioning the moire in my pictures. But certainly I have not stopped seeing it. I jsut don't mention it anymore and I try to pretend it's not hurting the image.

Borges · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 646 Location: Moers, Germany

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

I wonder if the problem is because we can now conveniently look at images on a screen and enlarge them, we're now seeing things that were always there on film using the same lenses, but because of the limited enlargements we were probably doing at the time, we never really noticed.

Now that we have all this technology, our standards are higher and any camera or lens "issues" are quite literally "magnified".

WDYT?

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

Moved message to maintain thread flow

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

By the way, I reveal the identity of the lens! Very Happy

It's an old zebra Flektogon 4/50 for Pentacon 6. I got it for about 70 euros about one month ago. Part because I wans't super fast to pay, part because the seller was quite slow to send, and part because the state mail is... well, the state mail... I got the package yesterday.

Well one has what he pays for, of course it's not the MC version and it's also a quite used lens. Mechanically it's ok however - whcih is some kind of a miracle, it's the first flektogon I buy that is perfectly ok mechanically.

I would like to call it "the weirdest normal lens I have". Weird because it's the opposite of a normal lens: it's HUGE, it's slow, and it's quite ugly. Laughing

Of course it is a wide angle in the P6 world so this also explains the Flektogon name.
Not feeling like loading a film in the beast, I tried it with the 5D.

Well it looks decidedly freaky on the 5D - will post a pic tomorrow Laughing

What to say... apart from the strange CA-or-whatever problem, I quite like it. It's reasonably sharp, it is very well corrected in distortion (which does not surprise for a Flek), and yes I agree with the previous comment, it renders much detail but keeps an organic roundness to things that makes it similar to a Planar lens - well it's not a planar, but it comes frmo the same family Wink

You often read that medium format lenses are not as good as 35mm lenses - I don't know, maybe it's true, but I think that this lens is not worse than many 50mm I have. And I would be curious to try another copy, because maybe it may not have the strange bleeding problem.

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

bob955i · Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 2495

I was looking at a part review of Canon's new 16-35 L II WA zoom on 16:9.net and it's certainly improved. But then at around ?1k, it should be....

To be fair, while we can't realistically expect a zoom, especially a WA one, to massively outperform a prime, you'd think that after 40 years the gap would have closed a bit more than it appears to have.

I had been considering either the 17-40 or 16-35 but after seeing their performance, I'm seriously considering just going down the more cost effective Flek route with the 4/20 and 4/25 as I already have the 2.4/35.

lulalake · Expire: 2011-11-18

What's more: color aberration usually happens more on out of focus areas and on the edges of the image. And, as I said, on one side only.
Here, the phenomenon happens on two sides. It happens ni perfectly focused areas. And it happens in the centre of the frame, or anyway, far from the edges.

This is why I would like to hear opinions. I would like to know if I am looking at an unusual form of color aberration, or if it's another optical defect with another name

HI Orio,

Ca and bloom(fringing) are two different issues. CA happens when a lens can't focus red and blue light at the same point, which must be corrected in all lenses as red and blue don't focus at the same point.

CA looks like there is a small halo of red on one side of any and all objects in the picture and a halo of green or blue on the other side

Fringing/blooming is specific to digital cameras. It occurs in high contrast-opposite color areas such as tree branches against sky, the rail against the sky etc etc.

All digital cameras experience this, it's just the degree of it that is what is in question. CMOS sensors tend to have less than CCDs, large individual sensors tend to have less than small ones.

There are PS actions that get rid of it pretty well if it is bothersome.

Jules