Beware nex-7

uhoh7 · Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA

I had one ordered twice! TY god they were delayed. First time i just got a 5n. Second delay i just got cold feet

now we start to see thaere are issues with a wide variety of lenses:

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1904-sony-nex-7/

http://forum.photozone.de/...x.php?/topic/1992-sony-nex-7-2nd-sample-results/

Not a single online review I know of caught this issue.

see also
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/sony/34781-nex-7-problem-cz85.html

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

Don't fuel that anti-NEX7-hype without having tried it yourself!!

You warn about a camera that you have never used. Do you warn about people that you have never met?
I guess that's what we call "prejudice".

I've got the NEX-7 and yes, there are some issues with superwide rangefinder lenses (below 28mm FL).
But there are no issues with longer ones, 35mm and above and no issues whatsoever with SLR lenses that do not have the extremely short register distance RF lenses have, no issues even with a 15mm SLR lens!

Of course, there are softness issues if a lens is not capable of producing sharp images at the border wide open. But this is not the NEX's fault, is it?

The sensor of the NEX-7 is highly demanding if you go pixel-peeping. If you look at the photos at 50% (then the images are already way too big to be shown on a monitor) you won't see problems even with weaker lenses.

But I wonder if that high level of demands is a bad thing. It will rather help to separate the wheat from the chaff of your lens collection.

poilu · Expire: 2019-08-29

uhoh7 · Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

fotomachi · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:58 am Post subject:

This resembles a hot kettle of boiling oil that is becoming superheated Very Happy

Remember, breathe in... breathe out...
Another time, breathe in... breathe out...
And now think: It's only a camera....
Breathe in, breathe out... it's only a camera...
Breathe in, breathe out... it's only a camera...

Whatever the situation is with the NEX, I have decided to wait at least another year before buying a new model. I have a NEX-5, great camera, many faults. It leaves me with a feeling of "much to be improved in the coming years". So I decided to wait until the NEX-line has matured somewhat more.
Also, whatever the situation is with the new NEX-models, I think Sony is more interested in offering their newer models with their new E-mount lens line. It's more important for them to get the new Zeiss lenses to work rather then being compatible with the Voigtl�nder Heliars.

Again, breathe in, breathe out... Wink

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

I am neither angry not excited, I just think it's unfair to judge on a camera, no matter which one, without personal experience.

Do I like the NEX-7? Bloody hell, I do!
But not because of, rather despite its sensor. Wink

Would I rather have a NEX-5N? No, I wouldn't.
Although the sensor is better.

Is it OK not to buy a NEX-7?
Yes, perhaps that's even the more intelligent thing to do. Early adaptors always have to live with flaws that later edition do not have.

Do I regret to have bought the NEX-7?
No, not for a single second, although I have realized the faults and drawbacks of this camera.

Is it OK to report about experiences with the NEX-7, good and bad?
Of corse, this is what helps other to decide, but do not multiply experiences that others have made and sell them as generally true.
That is what I am oppoing here.

And yes, I am breathing in and out... Wink

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

ive gotta be honest here, i'm not sure what is wrong with saying 'beware' of a known issue, since when did that become contraversial? ive seen plenty of posts complaining about 'known' issues with the x100 for example, and most of those 'known' issues were result of people not knowing how to use the camera, but i didnt see this kind of reaction.

many people want the nex7 specifically to use with RF lenses, and because of the crop factor, WA lenses, especially like the cv28/2, become valuable 'normal' lenses. why should these people not be warned about actual real problems? this is a really expensive camera and the issues described with it are not little issues to many many people who use mf lenses--like everyone here! it is a crime really that one of our senior members would think twice about posting this information because he was preemptively afraid of a backlash reaction. really??!! thats what we want here, people afraid to post objective necessary negative information because it might hurt some owners feelings. wow...

i think folks need to be a little less invested in their own gear. one of the main reasons for success of forums like this is the free flow of information--especially factual information--both positive and negative. but also flow of opinion as well. as a side note, while it may be a little tiresome to read how leica is overpriced etc, equally tiresome is the reaction to that widely held opinion. unless we just want posts of 'youre so great', 'your gear is so great', 'love sony', 'love your leica', 'gosh wish i could afford your zeiss' pablem comments,then we should maybe take a step back and let the information flow, especially when its accurate.

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

Perhaps, I did not make myself clear. I don't point at the term "beware" only.
It is the over-generalization that I object.

Of course, it is important to inform others about information you have read.

Anyway, I do not want to continue here. In my eyes that warning was overdone, other might think differently. OK, fine with me.

Anybody who allows himself to be alarmed by those new findings about the NEX-7, no matter how much subtance they have, is IMHO already uncertain if he should buy one. So, better don't. Wink

uhoh7 · Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA

56 DIN · Expire: 2021-11-18

Hatch · Joined: 19 Feb 2012 Posts: 30 Location: Netherlands

LOL, what completely confounds me is the uproar about this.

I mean wasn't it oubvious when Steve Huff posted about his corner issues on RF wide angles.
It's not so simple as "Just some magenta colour shift".
No aberration exists in isolation.

Photography has become too accessible I think.

Rolling Eyes

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

might i suggest the following as a much more appropriate and effective way to have responded to the initial post, as it does not attack anyone or their motives, does not prohibit criticism of gear except by gear 'owners', and does not dismiss documented criticism as 'hysteria'. it simply offers a personal, factual reply to nex7/rf lens criticisms. as it also preserves harmonious free flow of information, perhaps this can serve as a model for how we deal with what we believe is inaccurate information:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=116556

we should all remember that criticism of 'gear' we happen to own is not criticism of us as human beings, its just criticism of gear we happen to own!

LucisPictor · Expire: 2013-12-03

Since this thread seems to go on, I need to add that my first response was not only referring to the initial post of this thred but also a reaction to several threads all over the internet in which users who do not own the NEX-7 have pointed at how many flaws it has and how bad it is. This is really annoying but not understandable if you only read this thread here.
That perhaps explains the different perceptions.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

uhoh7 · Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA

Philber I think is worth quoting:

"FWIW, here is a quick synthesis of my experience with a NEX 7 so far. For reference, I have shot thousands of pics with a NEX 5, hundreds with a C3 and thousands with a 5N, all with alt glass, before getting the 7.
There are at least 2 WA that work fine of NEX 7, alas neither of them cheap: the Leica R 19mm V2, which was expected, since it is a DSLR lens, and the totally unexpected LEICA WATE. The WATE shows no softness issue even at 16mm even wide open, even in the extreme corners. It just works, period. This shows that lens construction is much more relevant than FL. If this one lens works, then other similar designs in terms of geometry and placement will work, irrespective if it is an ultra-expensive Leica or not. Careful examination fails to show any camera issues, which proves to my satisfaction that the camera itself "can" work just as specified providing a lens is mounted on it that suits it.

One WA lens shows mid-to-strong colour shift, which otherwise works fine on the NEX 5N, the Zeiss ZM 18mm f:4.0. However, it cleans up very nicely with Cornerfix, and the result fails to show any issues (test shot at f:8.0, I have not yet tried wide open, but will before deciding to keep and shoot the ZM 1 Cool

.

One wide-ish lens showed mid-to-strong colour shift, which otherwise works fine on the 5N: the Contax G 28, and I have not been able to clean it up with Cornerfix. I believe that the result, even if rid of colour shift, would also display unacceptable softness issues. This is a Biogon, symmetrical design, and likely the most problematic construction for the NEX 7 to accept, since even the much more tolerant NEX 5N is marginal with the otherwise brilliant ZM 25 Biogon.
I briefly tried the Leica M 28 Summicron f:2.0, and got clear but mild shift, but did not try to clean it up, as I had no interest in buying that lens.
I tried less wide lenses, and did not come across any trouble at all: Contax G 45 and G 90, Leica R 35-70 f:3.4, Leica F 60 mm Makro.
For reference, the "easiest" way to see shift is shooting straight into a blue sky. Second best is a white or light gray target. In my experience, it is possible to "get away" with even severe shift if you are ready to work around it. I sold a Contax G 21, a fantastic piece of glass, which I couldn't get to work even on a 5N. Even cleaned up, I got mush in the corners, and I am far from a "sharpness-�ber alles" ayatollah. Well, that guy whom I sold it to has been showing awesome pics from it and his 5N....***

In summary, the NEX 7 is a camera that can work as specified and advertised, and its IQ is awesome. BUT, to get there, one needs to understand that (1) viewing a 100% crop of a 24Mp camera is a significantly higher magnification than with a 16Mp camera, and thus a much harder test, and (2), the higher the pixel density, the more it will show any weakness in the shooting itself. For example, the 7 clearly shows the difference between critically sharp and hyperfocally sharp, which the 5N does not. It also requires that I use much higher shutter speeds if I am to avoid seeing motion blur. When shooting from the waist, on a good day I can use my 5N down to 1/3 of 1/focal length. I have not been able to get lower than 1/focal length with the 7, and even that was not with a great keeper rate.
So the 5N is a really great ultra-small platform for alt glass, delivering very good IQ pretty easily and without fuss. Perfect for shooters who want a platform for a variety of existing glass, or use it as a "take-anywhere-shoot-any-time-and-any-place" camera.
That, the 7 is not, and it will punish you for trying. BUT, as a small-ish platform for chosen glass shot carefully, it will produce IQ that is on a par with the absolute best DSLRs, with the exception of what a FF sensor can do (very thin DOF).
I rest my case (and the pot)"

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/394432-post52.html

***
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkiv/sets/72157629132087149/

this last link is the rebirth of the contax g 21 on the nex sensor which philber refers to in the post.

uhoh7 · Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA

Klaus elaborates...a bit Wink

I was looking at the photozone review of the 50/1.8 and noticed the interesting disclaimers:

http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/720-sony50f18nex?start=1

"The camera sensor of the Sony NEX 7 has a rather difficult resolution characteristic for lenses specifically at large aperture settings - the corner quality is substantially dampened based on what we've seen so far. However, we still feel that it is appropriate to restart our Sony E tests based on this camera. After all this is Sony's flagship model (as of 2012)."

and on the following page:

"As already mentioned the 24 megapixel sensor of the Sony NEX 7 seems to have a rather difficult characteristic especially regarding its resolution capabilities at the image corners. This behavior has been confirmed by user observations in the meanwhile (feel free to google). This is a bit unfortunate because we feel that the sensor shouldn't have such a deep impact on the lens quality. The lens quality will be somewhat better on Sony's 16 megapixel sensor."

lauge · Expire: 2013-05-30

Have any of you tried to replicate Klaus findings with success? I did a quick test comparing NEX 7 with A55 with S-M-C Takumar 28/3.5 and 50/1.4 and the Zeiss Flektogon 35/2.4, and didn't find anything near what Klaus experienced. Could Sony have made a revised version of the sensor?

Pontus · Expire: 2016-08-25

I chose a different angle. I have the 5n for wide lenses and the 7 for longer focal lenghts in my camera bag.

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

If anybody dissapointed in NEX-7 I ready to take it on half price Smile

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

lauge · Expire: 2013-05-30

Finally found some interesting pages on this subject on google, most tests seems to be removed though. So it's not as dramatically as Klaus writes and this forum title imply - and as a side note the same design is used by Fuji X-Pro1 sensor. "Beware nex-7" is a bit of a misleading title which cost me an entire evening testing. ...well, no harm done it was fun Smile

ManualFocus-G · Expire: 2014-11-24