Best mirrorless camera to use old manual lenses

wolan · Joined: 30 Jun 2015 Posts: 576 Location: Zurich

Hi,

I have a Nikon D600. I understand there are some problems with the Nikon mount when it comes to using the lenses mentioned in this forum (those with exotic mouts: M42, Altix, Exa etc.).

So, provided I am ready to invest in a mirrorless camera, which one is best suited in your opinion?

Personally I like Fuji cameras.

Thank you.

TrueLoveOne · Expire: 2013-12-24

If money is not a deciding factor there is only one mirrorless camera if you ask me: the Sony A7.

Takes all lenses with simple and cheap adapters and it has a full frame sensor.

BurstMox · Expire: 2016-08-02

A7, A7II (stabilized body) if you can afford it

newst · Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA

Another vote for the Sony A7/A7II. E-mount, with the shortest back-flange dimension in mirrorless cameras, adapts to the widest range of legacy lenses.

Beyond adaptability, the EVF, sensor and firmware are all at the top of the mirrorless range.

BeardsAreBest · Joined: 09 May 2014 Posts: 286 Location: Australia

A7 all the way.
Everything goes on there and if it doesn't then find a way. Smile

A7 II would be nicer tho.

wolan · Joined: 30 Jun 2015 Posts: 576 Location: Zurich

This camera would also offer focus peaking, which is very handy with mf lenses. Correct?

newst · Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA

Billou · Expire: 2015-05-19

Another vote for A7/A7 II, but don't exclude fuji X-T1. It's not full frame allright, but the viewfinder is much better than Sony's, so big that you don't even need to magnifiy the view to focus perfectly where you want. And it gives you a mode where you have a small magnification window next to your image, it's awesome for manual lenses. And I found the Fuji focus peaking better than Sony, slightly more precise.

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

There is no doubt that the Sony A7 series of cameras is best as it can take almost every lens ever produced to use for digital photography. However, you also should be aware that, though the lenses fit all physically, there are some known incompatibilities with certain kind of RF lenses which may lead to some unwanted artifacts in the final pictures. However, most of them are removable during PP and not many lenses are known so far anyway.
So it's finally also a question of personal taste what somebody considers to be best or not.
All what I try to say is that there is no perfect camera which will suite everybody's needs and tastes.

The most important question which you should answer yourself is whether the change from an optical to an electronic view finder is something what you really like. I still prefer the use of an optical VF for certain circumstances. So the question is also if you want to replace your existing SLR or just add a mirrorless to your collection for the additional use of MF lenses. I prefer to have both for different tasks for instance. Luckily I have no Nikon but a Sony FF SLR which is able to take at least all M42 MF lenses too.

Finally the look and feel is very important. So you should in any case try any candidate physically in advance before you buy.

It's a hard decision anyway. Wink

memetph · Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland

Sony A7 ( or II ) is probably the best choice. Good glass will shine with it. Be prudent regarding the opinions about legacy lenses on internet. Many of them are still besed on cropped sensor. UWA and WA should especially be selected with care .

nameBrandon · Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 19 Location: Chicago

valjo · Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 68 Location: Bulgaria

mirrorless Sony has one major disadvantage - it has not optical viewfinder
did not pass the exam!

caribou · Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 44 Location: France

A7 series are for sure an excellent choice for adapted manual lenses, especially the A7s that is better for wide angles RF lenses (if it is only for SLR lenses, A7 would probably be a better choice).
BUT, in other brand and format there are premium choices too.
Olympus, E-M5, E-M1 or in a "RF style" E-P5 give lot of pleasure with manual lenses. The viewfinder of the E-P5/E-M1 offer slightly better image than the A7. The fabulous 5 axis stabilisation (A7II and A7rII has one too but for much more money at this day). Better in body-JPG. Of course there is a crop factor (x2) but the good news is that exclude the corners...

I've got those two types, a Sony A7s and an E-P5. The first for 50mm, wide angles and low light. The second for above 50mm or an AF 17mm (=35mm in FF) and "every days photography", at work to exchange with my customers and at home (also to go underwater with an housing).

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9097 Location: Houston, Texas

Regarding the A7 series, I thought I'd just pass along some info that came to light in another forum when a similar question was asked (best mirrorless?). A few of the respondents pointed out that the A7's shutter is loud and carries quite a bit of vibration with it. I don't have an A7, so I cannot personally verify this, but perhaps some others here who own one might wish to comment about the A7's shutter in this regard.

And if it is loud and makes the camera bounce, I wonder if Sony addressed this issue with the A7II.

caribou · Joined: 22 May 2011 Posts: 44 Location: France

Sure, the shutter is a problem, I resolved it with the A7s and it's electronic shutter option Smile

I forgot about Olympus, better focus peaking than Sony, more usefull.

calvin83 · Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7554 Location: Hong Kong

kds315* · Expire: 2021-03-09

CuriousOne · Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home

I'd go with A7s, and if on budget, with Pentax Q. The latest allows to use superfast F0.75-0.95 X-Ray machine lenses, which are unusable even on A7.

kds315* · Expire: 2021-03-09

glaebhoerl · Joined: 03 May 2014 Posts: 100 Location: Hungary

Technologically, it is more or less indisputable that the Sony A7(r)II is superior. Full frame sensor, 5-axis IBIS, ... so very likely, at least if you have the funds, a Sony would be the best choice.

There are a few relatively minor considerations which might speak in favor of a Fuji camera instead:

The film simulation modes (in-camera color/rendering for JPEGs) are widely praised, and go well with film-camera lenses. However, I haven't personally looked at Sony cameras' output, so all I can reliably say is that I personally like the Fujis' a lot, and the consensus opinion on the internet also seems to be that Fuji does it much better. If you mostly want to shoot RAW and post-process, or even prefer the Sony's output, then this won't be an issue. (I personally find post-processing tedious in the extreme and never do it, so the good in-camera processing of the Fuji is very important to me.)
The controls and styling of Fuji cameras are also much more "retro", which again go well with lenses which are actually from the bygone era which the modern Fuji cameras are trying to emulate. I also personally like these controls much better than PASM in general (though I haven't tried an A7 in particular).
There are some lenses which were designed for smaller formats, and which therefore work better on APS-C than full frame (either the image circle doesn't even cover the sensor, or image quality gets much worse toward the edges). It should be noted that there are much fewer of these than of full-frame lenses. Most notable among them are the Olympus Pen-F lenses, but there are a few scattered others. The 40/1.4 Zuiko, for example, happens to be my favorite lens. Of course, you can still use these with a full-frame camera and just crop the images, at some potential cost in resolution (depending on which camera you have).
For similar reasons, telephoto lenses are more "efficient" on a crop sensor. If I want the reach a 135mm lens gives me on a Fuji, on an A7 I'd have to use a 200mm lens, which is much bigger. Likewise, for the reach of a 200mm, I'd need a much bigger 300mm lens. Again though, you can just crop the image from a full-frame camera to get the same effect as if it were APS-C, at a resolution cost. I'll expand on this below. And this is of course counterbalanced by the fact that wide-angle lenses are much more efficient on a full-frame sensor: a 28mm lens on an A7 has a wider angle of view than a 20mm on a Fuji! (That said, you can also get a Speed Booster for the Fuji to recover very nearly the same angle of view as a full-frame sensor, but it's expensive, and might have a negative impact on image quality.)

A full frame sensor is 36 x 24mm = 864mm^2. A Fuji APS-C sensor is 23.6mm x 15.6mm = 368.16mm^2. This means a Fuji sensor has 42.61% of the area of a Sony sensor. A Fuji sensor is 16.3MP. If you crop a Sony sensor to APS-C, here is how much resolution you are left with:

A7s (12.2MP) -> 5.2MP
A7, A7II (24.3MP) -> 10.35MP
A7r (36.4MP) -> 15.5MP
A7rII (42.4MP) -> 18.1MP

So if you buy an A7r or A7rII, even after cropping you'll have almost as much or even more resolution than a Fuji, making the last two points completely moot.

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

Having read some of the disadvantages here again about the A7 regarding wide angles and loud shutter I just wanted to mention my most favorite mirrorless camera for old MF lenses, especially RF ones: Ricoh GXR-M.
It's purely designed for the use with MF RF lenses but can take almost every SLR lens as well.
There is no issue whatsoever with wide angles and the shutter is alternatively also switchable to 100% noiseless (electronic mode) and also the mechanic shutter is nearly noiseless.
The only "disadvantage" compared to the A7 is the APS-C sensor but that is not as important for me as I have a FF DSLR additionally anyway. For tele use it may also be seen as advantage. Depends as always on the personal preferences.
However, as I have a full set of RF lenses from 12 to 135mm I am also rather fine on the ultra wide part of the game as I consider the FOV of 18mm of the excellent CV12mm lens as good enough.
A major advantage of the use of this combination (GXR-M and RF lenses) is the rather small size compared to any other combination with SLR lenses and especially the ultra wide angle RF lenses are causing the biggest problems on the A7.
Additionally the GXR-M has some features which you barely will find in any other camera like e.g. the possibility to register all lenses manually for the direct display in the EXIF information. Also the way how the focus aid is designed is at least for my personal taste the best. Also the lack of the low-pass or blur filter for better details is something to mention as only the A7R/36MP does have this feature too.
Just to complete the overall picture.

shaolin95 · Joined: 24 Apr 2014 Posts: 75

tb_a · Expire: 2019-08-28

wolan · Joined: 30 Jun 2015 Posts: 576 Location: Zurich

Hi,
thank you to everybody for your useful tips.

I'll consider Sony A7 but to be honest I'd prefer to go for the Fuji, if not else for price reasons.

However I have some additional questions here:
- which Fuji camera would you recommend?
- which adapters would not be available for the X (Fuji) mount, which are available for the Sony cameras?
- would all my Nikkor Ai(s) lens work fine on the X mount?
- if you are a Fuji shooter, please share what are the cons in your view

Thanks again.

glaebhoerl · Joined: 03 May 2014 Posts: 100 Location: Hungary

I think the main points are that the X-E1 is the cheapest, the X-E2 has faster operation, a faster EVF refresh rate especially in low light, newer firmware, and the split-screen focusing aid (using the sensor's phase detect pixels), and in addition to those, the X-T1 also has a considerably larger viewfinder (with the ability to view both the full image and a magnified part of it at the same time, which I imagine could be very useful).

I myself have an X-E1. The biggest day-to-day complaint I have is that, after taking a shot, it takes an excruciatingly long time for the button that turns on EVF magnification to start working again - I haven't measured it, but probably a full second or two. (I usually futilely press the button 3 to 5 times in this interval before it finally registers.) This is really, really annoying if I want to take a quick shot and then adjust focus for the next shot. I assume this is fixed in the later models. I've also found the focus peaking to be completely useless (way too imprecise to be of any help) and have turned it off; I don't know if other cameras do it better. For what it's worth (maybe because I've never tried a good implementation), I don't really miss it.

I don't have concrete information, but I would be surprised if there are any adapters for one mount which aren't available for the other (given that both are mirrorless cameras with very similar register distances).

I'm pretty sure all manual Nikon SLR lenses should work perfectly well on either.