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Best lenses (a kind of a survey)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Best lenses (a kind of a survey) Reply with quote
I'd like to know which are your favourite lenses in the following approximate focal lengths (FLs):

A - <24mm
B - 24/28mm
C - 35mm
D - 50mm
E - 85/105mm
F - 135mm

(I'll ask about longer lenses later as they are not my priority). For each FL, 4 'categories':

#1 - Simply the best (reasonably priced) - these are the best performers on each FL and usually produce the best images, but are also fast lenses and can offer some 'magic'. I'll have to establish a maximum average street price (around 200€/150£/US$300), but if there's an outstanding lens a little more expensive, feel free to add it to the list.

#2 - Second best choices - these are still very good performers that are either slower lenses or have minor performance 'problems' (soft wide open or soft borders, light colour cast) or simply are not as superb as #1 lenses. They must be noticeably less expensive than similar #1 lenses.

#3 - Cheap lenses - we're talking about real bargains here; good performers for a very small amount of money (say, ~20€/15£/US$30). They can be slow lenses, and have some performance 'problems', but still able to deliver good images.

#4 - Special lenses - here we can put either lenses with 'special abilities' (very good macro performance, soft focus...) or lenses that have strong and eventually desirable caracteristics (excellent bokeh, in spite of some softness; saturated yet natural colours).

Who wants to play? Wink


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Best lenses (a kind of a survey) Reply with quote
Pedro Claro wrote:
I'd like to know which are your favourite lenses in the following approximate focal lengths (FLs): Who wants to play?


I will Smile but I will have to stretch a bit your price limit to fit lenses in #1

Of course my preferences are limited to the lenses I have tried personally. I have important lacking areas, for instance I never tried Zuiko wide angles which are amongst the best, and my knowledge of lenses above 200mm is very limited

Quote:
A - <24mm


First choice: Zeiss Jena Flektogon 4/20, world's best 20mm for shooting architecture, price ranges from 150 to 200-230 Euros, depending on condition

Second choice: MIR-20M, incredible colour saturation, but careful because flares easily. Much distortion, so good for nature shots (sea forests deserts), not for architecture. Price from 80 to 120 Euros

Cheap: none

Special: Zenitar 16mm fisheye, cheapest fisheye that I know of, but good colours and sharp if you get a good copy. Price around 100-120 Euros

Quote:
B1 - 24-25mm


I have to create group B1 because 24mm lenses are not the same as 28mm lenses (different for price, use, characteristics)

First choice: Zeiss Distagon 25/2.8, one of the sharpest lenses that I have, used prices range from EUR 150 for an AE version to EUR 350-400 for a MM version. With a little patience to wait for the right occasion I could bring to home a boxed and perfect MM version for only 250 Euros

Second choice: Yashica ML 2.8/24, for me this lens is as important as the Distagon, it's less sharp than Distagon 25 (but still very sharp!), but it works better in the corners. The cost typically is between 100 and 150 Euros. It's not a common lens to find.

Cheap choice: none

Special choice: i'd like to mention the Flektogon 4/25, not really special but it gives images a very "flek look"

Quote:
B2 - 28-30mm


First choice: Zeiss Distagon MM 2.8/28, very compact all-round performer, zeiss quality, affordable (150 Euros for AE version, 200-230 Euros for MM version)

Second choice: Yashica ML 2.8/28, very similar in performance to Distagon 2.8/28, but costing half as much (typical price 60-80 Euros)

Cheap: Tamron 2.5/28, weak wide open but very good stopped down, very small so ideal for travels, cost around 30-40 Euros without Adaptall ring

Special: Zeiss Distagon 2/28, it's another world entirely, a 28mm that behaves like a fast 50mm, unreachable "ariosity" and 3D

Quote:
C - 35mm


First choice: Leica Elmarit-R 35, price can vary much depending on version, last version costs 300-350 Euros but first version can cost much less. Fantastic sharpness for great enlargements

Second choice: Zeiss Distagon 2.8/35 very compact lens, good for travels, Zeiss quality in affordable price (100 to 150 Euros depending on if AE or MM version)

Cheap: MIR-24 (N or M) 35mm f/2, incredible colour saturation, fast, great in closeups and excellent bokeh. Price for this gem only 60-80 Euros

Special: Zeiss Distagon 1.4/35, my #1 lens, you can do everything with it, incredible 3D effect, need to use one to understand

Quote:
D - 50mm


First choice: Nikkor AIS 1.4/50, sharp as hell, great bokeh, it has almost everything, only complaint it does not feel as "solid metal" as Zeiss or Leica. Cost around 150 Euros

Second choice: I put two here, Zeiss Planar 1.4/50 and Leica Summicron-R 2/50, cost is similar to Nikkor, they are less sharp than Nikkor, but Planar works better wide open and both Planar and Summicron has better 3D (especially Summicron). Same price as Nikkor for the Planar, Summicron costs around 200-250 EUR.

Cheap: SMC Takumar 1.4/50, it works similar to Nikkor and Planar, but only costs around 50-80 Euros so half price than the above

Special: Zeiss Jena Tessar 3.5/5. This tiny lens has a magician inside. I have not found who or how, but it creates some of the most amazing photos I ever made with a standard lens.

Quote:
E - 85/105mm


First choice: Zeiss Sonnar 3.5/100 the sharpest lens that I have ever had, sharp from wide open

Second choice: Leica Elmarit-R 2.8/90, very sharp from wide open, great skin tones for portraits

Cheap: not easy to find cheap lenses in this focal range, I think Jupiter-9 is the best one amongs the cheap (price around 70-90 Euros)

Special: Helios-40-2 lens impossible to describe, need to try it. Incredible bokeh wide open (if used well), incredibly sharp stopped dpwn

Quote:
F - 135mm


First choice: Zeiss Sonnar MM 2.8/135, a complete lens (both sharp and pleasing for portraits, great bokeh), it has the best focusing ring in the world in my opinion, prices go from 150 Eur for AE version to 200 Eur for MM version

Second choice: Zeiss Jena Sonnar 4/135, old aluminium lens with absolutely amazing performance, cost is around 50-70 Euros

Cheap: MC Jupiter-AM 3.5/135, good as the Sonnar, almost indistinguishable from them. Very sharp, very compact and good for travels

Special: Zeiss Planar 2/135 sharp wide open, unbeatable for shooting in low light condition

-


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Best lenses (a kind of a survey) Reply with quote
Pedro Claro wrote:
I'd like to know which are your favourite lenses in the following approximate focal lengths (FLs):

A - <24mm
B - 24/28mm
C - 35mm
D - 50mm
E - 85/105mm
F - 135mm

(I'll ask about longer lenses later as they are not my priority). For each FL, 4 'categories':

#1 - Simply the best (reasonably priced) - these are the best performers on each FL and usually produce the best images, but are also fast lenses and can offer some 'magic'. I'll have to establish a maximum average street price (around 200€/150£/US$300), but if there's an outstanding lens a little more expensive, feel free to add it to the list.

#2 - Second best choices - these are still very good performers that are either slower lenses or have minor performance 'problems' (soft wide open or soft borders, light colour cast) or simply are not as superb as #1 lenses. They must be noticeably less expensive than similar #1 lenses.

#3 - Cheap lenses - we're talking about real bargains here; good performers for a very small amount of money (say, ~20€/15£/US$30). They can be slow lenses, and have some performance 'problems', but still able to deliver good images.

#4 - Special lenses - here we can put either lenses with 'special abilities' (very good macro performance, soft focus...) or lenses that have strong and eventually desirable caracteristics (excellent bokeh, in spite of some softness; saturated yet natural colours).

Who wants to play? Wink


A - Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 20mm f2.8 and f4, Olympus OM 18mm f3.5, Olympus OM 21mm f2 and f3.5 both


B - Nikkor 24mm f2.8 AIS, Olympus OM 28mm f2.8 MC, Yashica ML 28mm f2.8 , Nikkor 24mm f2


C - Carl Zeiss Distagon 35mm f1.4 absolutely my top rated 35mm!
Nikkor 35mm f1.4, Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f2.4 MC

D - Nikkor 50mm f2, Nikkor 50mm f1.2 AIS, Olympus OM 50mm f1.4, f1.8 both variant (MC and non MC) Carl Zeiss Jena any lens, Carl Zeiss Plannar any lens. Olympus OM 50mm f3.5 Macro

E - Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 75mm, Helios-40, Carl Zeiss Plannar any variant, Carl Zeiss Pancolar 80mm f1.8, Nikkor 105mm f2.5 AIS, Nikkor 105mm f1.8 AIS,Nikkor 85mm f1,8 Non-AI, Jupiter-9 85mm f2, SMC Takumar 85mm f1.8, Meyer Primoplan 75mm f1.9, Steinheil 85mm f2.8 etc, etc.

F Carl Zeiss Sonnar for sure, in any variant. Meyer, Pentacon 135mm f2.8, Olympus OM 135mm any variant, Nikkor 135mm any variant.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Orio and Attila.

No surprises, here. To have the best, one has to invest some amount of money (still a lot less than equivalent AF lenses with similar or less good performance) and go for Nikkor, Leica, Carl Zeiss (both), Olympus and, occasionally, a Takumar and one or other russian lens. OTOH, I'm surprised to see two Yashica lenses side by side with CZ, Nikkor and Leica, but that's good news, of course, as they are a lot cheaper and may be excellent alternatives to the more expensive ones.

Orio: You're right about 24mm vs. 28mm, but there were already too many groups of lenses and I was trying to reduce them.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I forgot to put Yashica ML 24mm ...


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
How about extending the list up to 300 mm ? Here are my choices.

180-200mm

Standard option: Zeiss Tele-Tessar 3.5/200, Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2.8/180, Pentax SMC Takumar 4/200, Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2.8/200;
cheap option: Tamron 3.5/200;


300 mm

Standard option: Zeiss Jena Sonnar 4/300, Tamron SP 5.6/300;
Special: Tair-3 4.5/300;


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
All my really choice have one name LEICA.

The summicrons, especially 35 and 50 (for my taste the minolta-leica of the 1973) are magic.

Once a time i pic a church and though that the film or lenses were wrong, because I saw colours on the wall that couldn't see when I look this wall. But looking carefully, saw that this colours were there. Great contrast and 3 D

The summilux 35 and 75.

So-so at 1,4 (good for the 75mm, portraits with excelent bokeh), but incredible at 5,6 and 8.

The 35 mm. is so thin and light that, in facts, let you shot at 1/8 handheld without compromise.

The 21 F/3,4 it's hard to match.

regards.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sandie wrote:
How about extending the list up to 300 mm ? Here are my choices.

180-200mm

Standard option: Zeiss Tele-Tessar 3.5/200, Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2.8/180, Pentax SMC Takumar 4/200, Zeiss Jena Sonnar 2.8/200;
cheap option: Tamron 3.5/200;


300 mm

Standard option: Zeiss Jena Sonnar 4/300, Tamron SP 5.6/300;
Special: Tair-3 4.5/300;


Excellent choices!


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pentacon 200mm f/4 is also a very good option. The only problem is it is too cheap. Jupitar 21M is the same story.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Sandie and estudleon.

Of course, this post has a purpose... Smile In the next couple of months, I'll be able to invest up to around 700€ in photographic material. With the aquisition of a 40D, I have a good camera that fits my needs, and my current set of AF lenses do the job very well. So, my next move may be investing in some very good to excellent primes...

Initially I was thinking about cheaper lenses, but after this post and after some more research, I think I can go another path: top quality lenses - Leica, Carl Zeiss and maybe Nikkor. To my surprise, a lot of Carl Zeiss (C/Y fit) are way less expensive than I thought and at least some of the Leica lenses are also reasonably affordable. Having a lot of pacience and buying with criteria, I can manage to get, at least, 4 top lenses from those brands. Very Happy

I'll be looking for (at least) reasonably fast lenses (all my zooms are f/4) that produce high quality images with some 'magic'. I can even consider trading any of the AF lenses for more MF lenses if I start using primes more than zooms... Shocked


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My suggestion is to invest that 700 Eur in 2-3 top quality lenses rather than in 7-10 low-end lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio has absolutely right.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Orio has absolutely right.


and that's we all have that dreaming look in our eyes when we browse eBay and whatnot Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
My suggestion is to invest that 700 Eur in 2-3 top quality lenses rather than in 7-10 low-end lenses.


Agree.

I won't be able to buy one excellent lens for each focal length, but I'll try to fit 3 or 4 lenses in my budget, for instance:

24/25mm: Distagon 25/2.8 (an AE version for 150€ looks like a bargain);

28mm: doesn't seem to be my prefered FL, so I could probably do with a second choice, like the Yashica - IF any.

35mm: Elmarit-R 35 (if first version is as good as later ones, for, say, 200€). Distagon 35/1.4 is very tempting, but the price is too high;

50mm: Plannar 50/1.4 (150€ looks like a good price, but I've seen one or two of these going for ~100€), eventually could consider Nikkor 50/1.4 or Leica Summicron-R 50/2 (although I'd prefer a faster lens);

85mm: I'd keep my Jupiter 9 for now. Later could consider any of the suggested lenses (Sonnar 100/3.5 - again, would prefer a faster lens -, Elmarit-R 90/2.8 or Helios 40-2).

135mm: Sonnar 135/2.8 (seems perfect; good price too, 150/200€).

These lenses sum up around... 700€. All Carl Zeiss and Leica. Seems like a good plan, don't you think? And I'll always have other options, like the Nikkors Attila refered to.

Later maybe an even wider lens, a macro and one or two longer lenses. And maybe some cheaper toys for special uses or simply for fun...


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Best plan !


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The difficult/slower part of the plan could be to find a Distagon 25 at 150 Euros, if you can't, you can safely go with the Yashica ML 24 which is an excellent lens that holds comparison with Distagon.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
And I have one on sale Wink ML 24 Yashica


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is nice to experiment with different lenses with lesser price and unknown quality. In my experience it is best to do this when you already own a quality stable of lenses. I fully endorse Orio and Attila. Buy the best you can afford. Then if you want to experiment you will have some benchmarks for any future purchases Smile


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Yashica ML Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
And I have one on sale Wink ML 24 Yashica

Hi Attila,
Maybe I'm interested. For how much are you selling it?

Regards,
Alvaro


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Click here to see on Ebay

You can see on above link, thanks!


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I will also play! Fun game!!
But I need some more time, since I am working at the moment.

(BTW: messages removed, as requested.)


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Best lenses (a kind of a survey) Reply with quote
Pedro Claro wrote:
I'd like to know which are your favourite lenses in the following approximate focal lengths (FLs):

A - <24mm
B - 24/28mm
C - 35mm
D - 50mm
E - 85/105mm
F - 135mm

(I'll ask about longer lenses later as they are not my priority). For each FL, 4 'categories':

#1 - Simply the best (reasonably priced) - these are the best performers on each FL and usually produce the best images, but are also fast lenses and can offer some 'magic'. I'll have to establish a maximum average street price (around 200€/150£/US$300), but if there's an outstanding lens a little more expensive, feel free to add it to the list.

#2 - Second best choices - these are still very good performers that are either slower lenses or have minor performance 'problems' (soft wide open or soft borders, light colour cast) or simply are not as superb as #1 lenses. They must be noticeably less expensive than similar #1 lenses.

#3 - Cheap lenses - we're talking about real bargains here; good performers for a very small amount of money (say, ~20€/15£/US$30). They can be slow lenses, and have some performance 'problems', but still able to deliver good images.

#4 - Special lenses - here we can put either lenses with 'special abilities' (very good macro performance, soft focus...) or lenses that have strong and eventually desirable caracteristics (excellent bokeh, in spite of some softness; saturated yet natural colours).

Who wants to play? Wink


Well, lunch break...

A1: Nikkor UD 3.5/20; Olympus Zuiko 3.5/18 (but this one is far beyond the price limit.)
A2: Vivitar 3.5/17
A3: Cosina 3.8/20 (but you won't get that one under €50,- - actually, I think there is no lens in this category that comes cheaper.)
A4: ?

24mm (There is a big difference between 24 and 28mm, so I need to separate this group.)
B1: Nikkor 2.8/24 & Pentax SMC 2.8/24
B2: Tamron 2.5/24
B3: Hanimex 3.5/23
B4: ?

28mm
B1: Leica Elmarit-R 2.8/28 (But I do not own it, have just tried it once.)
B2: Vivitar 2.0/28 & Olympus Zuiko 3.5/28
B3: Vivitar 2.8/28 (Still a very good lens!)
B4: Petri 2.8/28 Macro (Very good macro performance)

C1: Leica Elmarit.R 2.8/35 & Nikkor 2.0/35
C2: MIR-1b 2.8/37
C3: Soligor 2.8/35
C4: ?

D1: Nikkor-S.C 1.2/55
D2: Asahi Takumar 1.4/50 or Rollei Planar 1.8/50 ... (many, many more...)
D3: SMC Pentax-M 1.7/50 or Helios-44-2 2.0/58
D4: Volna-9 2.8/50 Macro (!)

E1: Nikkor 1.8/85
E2: Asahi Takumar 2.8/105
E3: Hanimex 4/100
E4: Jupiter-9 2.0/85 (Amazing difference between f2.0, almost a soft lens, and f2.8 )

F1: Leica Elmarit-R 2.8/135 (But I do not own it.)
F2: Nikkor 3.5/135 or CZJ Sonnar 4/135 or Tamron 2.5/135 or Tair-11 or Zuiko 3.5/135 or...
F3: Jupiter-37 3.5/135
F4: Any 1.8/135 lens...

So far, my lists...

Last edited by LucisPictor on Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A - <24mm Tokina 17mm
B - 24/28mm Pentax Takumar 28/3,5
C - 35mm pentax SMC M 35/3,5
D - 50mm Zeiss Ultron 50/1,8, Pentax Takumar 55/1,8, Jena T50/2,8
E - 85/105mm Pentax SMC M100/2,8
F - 135mm Zeiss Sonnar 135/3,5

These are my best lenses

regards Peter


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
You can see on above link, thanks!

A bit expensive for my mflenses budget, I'll go for a 28mm i think. Your copy looks gorgeous
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