Best 400mm for Moon shooting?

woodrim · Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston

I've been looking for a 400mm and just today bought a Novoflex 5.6/400.

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

Great pic cooltouch!

Also, in the meantime I changed my habits as now I'm mostly shooting with the A6000.
So, I understand I should look for a 500mm what about the Vivitar 500 f/8?

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

ManualFocus-G · Expire: 2014-11-24

This is the old shot from my Nesstar 400/6.9:

The key to moon shots is often the post processing! Drag back the highlights and sharpen the image and things will look a lot better, regardless of the lens Smile

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

So I've spot two lenses (within my budget/max $100), I'd love to hear from you guys which one might work better (if any!)
Tamron 400mm f/6.9
Vivitar Series 500mm f/8 (V-500-PRE)

edit: not sure, but I guess those two lenses are just kind of cheap, regular new lenses on the market. It seems they are around on Amazon as well, so I think this is no good use.

woodrim · Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston

ManualFocus-G · Expire: 2014-11-24

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

That's a nice shot ManualFocus-G!

I can probably get the Tamron, it's almost within my budget.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9097 Location: Houston, Texas

Yes, a nice shot, Graham. Still good detail with a 400mm. But if it were a 300mm, much of the detail would be lost. Besides the PP you mention, I've determined that the best time to shoot a full moon is when it's about a day past full. When it's full, shadows are minimal and everything looks just sort of flat. But a bit past full, and the shadows are beginning to grow, which gives more detail to the image.

Also, a common mistake that people make when they take pics of the moon is to expose for it as if it were a night shot. They look at their photos afterward and all they have are white spots against a black background. True, it's night, but the moon is reflecting the sun. And with its albedo, it's reflecting it at about two stops off of 18% gray using the sunny f/16 rule, or an exposure of 1/125 @ f/8 @ ISO 100. Actually, I prefer shooting 1 stop off 18% gray or f/11. It's a bit darker that way, but gives more detail. That full moon shot of mine above was taken at f/11.

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

24 hours before full moon may be best time. Wink

enzodm · Joined: 11 Sep 2010 Posts: 350 Location: Italy

One of the pictures I post usually, made with an Hanimex 400/6.3 with a bit of fungus.
Many 400/6.3 or 500/8 are always the same thing with different names, so do not worry much about the name.

(it seems there is some issue with Flickr, anyway is here)

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

Thanks for the tips cooltouch!

So, I could go with the tamron, just I'm not sure about the mounting, is this a Nikon?

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9097 Location: Houston, Texas

Yes, it's Nikon, but I can tell only because of that little divot in the flange that indicates it's AIs. That mount looks like it's had part of the mount removed, though. Although I suspect it'll still mount up -- just no aperture control, etc.

Visualopsins -- whether before or after, I don't see how it would make much difference. Just a 180-degree change in the direction of the shadows or thereabouts. As a practical matter, I don't do a lot of planning ahead for moon photography. If it looks like it's full and I'm in the mood, I'll take some pics. And then I check a calendar to see if it is full or not. Just the way it worked out -- most of my best shots were taken when the moon was one day past full.

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

bruzzo · Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Posts: 153

I've seen some Soligor 400/5.6 that are selling pretty cheap awhile ago, not sure about the original manufacturer though, is it Komine or Tokina or Sun? The design is similar to the Soligor 300/4.5 that I have experience on. Quite compact and light for it's focal length back in the days.

The Sigma 400/5.6 APO is another choice, the APO Tele Macro version is the best but expensive. There's also a Sigma 500/7.2 if you're interested in 500mm, also pretty cheap.

For me personally, I previously use an Olympus 70-300 (140-600 FF equivalent) on my E-620. But now I just use a bridge super zoom camera like a Canon SX50 or Nikon P530. They are light and compact combined with tons of zoom range. I actually get very good results when shooting the moon with them even handheld, with their small size, light weight, and IS feature, they're a lot easier than my E-620.

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9097 Location: Houston, Texas

This conversation reminded me of a bit of photoshopping I did, and I couldn't find it -- until just now. This is a combination of two photos, both taken with a 10.1mp Canon EOS XS (1000D). 1/125, f/8, ISO 100. These are both 100% crops with no PP done to either one. The top photograph was taken with my old but very good Century Precision Optics Tele Athenar II 500mm f/5.6 and the bottom photo was taken with a Tamron 52BB 500mm f/8 mirror. One of the criticisms often leveled at mirrors is that their photos just don't have the contrast of a good refractor (like the CPO here). Well, as you can see, yes the Tamron has a softer contrast -- but it's really a small amount, isn't it. And it would be an easy thing in post to bump it up a notch or two such that its contrast would be equal to the CPO 500mm. Now, as for sharpness, which to me is the most important element of a photo like this, there is no discernable difference at 10.1 mp. So, bottom line, yes, the Tamron 500mm mirror really is as good as people claim it is. At least when shooting at infinity, or close to it.

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

Alright, I've just received the Tamron!
At first glance everything seems to be working just fine, and that's a relief Smile

Can't wait to test it out.

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

Didn't go well.
There's no way I can get the moon in focus. Basically, the lens doesn't focus to infinity, this is as far as I can go:

100% crop (@ f/32 and still some CA here!):

Is it because it's defective? Is there a way to fix this?
It's a shame, because at first glance I kind of like it (post in PS):

enzodm · Joined: 11 Sep 2010 Posts: 350 Location: Italy

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

Check your adapter. It could be too thick and you can't reach infinity. All it takes is a fraction of a millimeter.
Have this issue with a cheap Nikon F/Ai to Sony E mount adapter.

Most lenses from that era uses a screwed stop to calibrate infinity. But it will require you to disassemble part of your lens to get to it.

The other photos look great!

marcusBMG · Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1304 Location: Conwy N Wales

On many of these old 400's infinity focus can be adjusted by repositioning the front element. The front elements are in a mount that screws in the front end. A small grub screw locks the unit in - scrutinise the outside of the front end barrel. Loosen the grub screw and try screwing in the element in its unit - lens spanner best but if it's not tight a small screwdriver in one of the notches will work - 180deg and check infinity focus on a suitably distant object using magnified live view. Repeat as necessary when satisfactory re-tighten the grub screw.

My Tamron Nestar is also a bit iffy with infinity focus. And I suspect that the tests this chinese blogger did on a number of 400's showed up a similar issue on the tamron he was testing (poor results long range out of sync with the rest of the test).

cgustav · Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles

WNG555 · Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 784 Location: Arrid-Zone-A, USA

From the photo, it looks like you are lined up at infinity....note dot at 6.9, and red line at infinity.