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B&W developing - essential answers
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they will work, I think I will stick with Ilford for the beginning, as I am a clear case of guy needing very clear explanation! Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Peter, this thread seems to refresh my memory - last darkroom work was 20 years ago.

These posts plus the new MF camera and the stuff with the B+W film has made me want to do my own film developing again. I've been checking out Henry's site for gear and chemicals - think I'm going to ask Santa for the gear and a gift card (wouldn't want him to risk transporting the chemicals Laughing )
http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/henrys/index.jspThe other thing that got me thinking is that 120 film will cost about $1 / per frame to develope and so far the math is looking good on the cost of developing.

The other thing is that with not wanting to do prints and directly scanning the negs, I can have a dkroom that fits in a suitcase Very Happy

Will keep you posted as things develop, Laughing

Sorry, couldn't help myself Smile

Jim


PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've got my gear and since I'm on this side of the pond I'm using Kodak chemicals.
I decided to get the "powdered" developer - on the package it notes that the shelf life of the mixed solution is about 6 months. My question is if I'm working from the powdered developer any idea what the shelf life should be for the opened packet - I'm thinking that it will go into something more air tight . . .
I haven't started using the stuff yet as I need to get my accordian bottles etc.
In my Christmas stocking was a roll of B&W film though.

Boy look what peer pressure can get you doing Very Happy Laughing

Jim


PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j.lukow wrote:
Well I've got my gear and since I'm on this side of the pond I'm using Kodak chemicals.
I decided to get the "powdered" developer - on the package it notes that the shelf life of the mixed solution is about 6 months. My question is if I'm working from the powdered developer any idea what the shelf life should be for the opened packet - I'm thinking that it will go into something more air tight . . .
I haven't started using the stuff yet as I need to get my accordian bottles etc.
In my Christmas stocking was a roll of B&W film though.

Boy look what peer pressure can get you doing Very Happy Laughing

Jim

Hi Jim. I'm so sorry this reply is so late. I missed your question somehow.

As I understand it, unopened sachets will last indefinitely, but once you open the sachet you have to use all the powder immediately to make "stock solution". My sachets make 1 litre of solution. This can be used directly or diluted down to make a "working solution", so a 1 litre sachet would potentially do 12 35mm films.

After use, the developer from the tank should be discarded, but you will need something to store the remainder of the stock solution you have left over. I'm using an earthenware (lightproof) Ginger Beer bottle. And as you say, this will keep for up to 6 months.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem Laughing
Since I've only shot my first B+W this week, I haven't mixed any solution yet.
I'm just waiting for Lana to sew up my film changing bag Smile She got some black out cloth, it is very opaque!

Jim


PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wonderful tutorial, peter. gives me confidence ...


PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
Great Peter!!
Thank you!

I will call you "Peter the Great" ! Laughing


Great tutorial indeed! As a history student I can't help but notice the reference to Peter the Great of Russia; the first czar that really put Russia on the map as a country to be taken seriously. He did great things (as his name suggests) - just like our own Peter here, who wrote a great tutorial!


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterqd wrote:
One 120 or 220 film: 500ml


Negus -tank: about 700ml.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nebro tanks need 560ml for 120, Patterson need 600ml. Or at least, that's what my tanks have printed on them.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know why this Negus (1950's or 1960's perhaps) has a huge space around the spiral?


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Nebro tanks need 560ml for 120, Patterson need 600ml. Or at least, that's what my tanks have printed on them.

In my earlier message which kansalliskala quoted from, I mentioned I was using the Paterson Super System 4 Universal Tank (the most common one). This is what is embossed on the bottom, as I said before:

One 135 or 126 film: 290ml (10oz)
One 127 film: 370ml (13oz)
One 120 or 220 film: 500ml (17.5oz)

600ml (21oz) is needed for two 135 films in stacked reels.

I don't know about any other tanks and I don't know which Paterson you use Ian, but if anyone is using a different tank to mine then they need to check the volume needed.


PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
thanks I wanted to ask
if we can see the steps also in a video
and
if there are recommendations on which chemicals to buy to start with black and white development.

Regards
A.


PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Video from user David http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y586-3KdOA&list=TLcgZwPy4zKaoU74Nwoy3SpGnF3Vee3bUV


PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, mmelvis, for the share.

As for recommendations, A, my recent favorite developer is Ilfosol 3. Microdol-X remains my all-time favorite. D-76 is a-okay.

I avoid, actively, TMAX developer and my last batch of XTOL turned me off of it for good.

For fixers, I've been using Arista odorless, but I'm fed up with it. It will fix your film in two minutes, unless that film is Kodak or Ilford. It takes about 10 minutes to fix Ilford (no problem) and around 45 to fix TMax and remove the remaining pink dye. The actual fixing on TMax takes around five minutes, the balance is so that the film doesn't remain pink after washing. And those times are with agitation. So for fix, Kodak fixer is my personal favorite and well worth the extra $2 per gallon.

For stop bath, just use water. Stop bath only serves to protect fixer, but using water between the developing and fixing stages removes excess developer and protects the fixer just fine.


PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
what if the water is just salty water. In my kitchen when I wash a pot, for example, if I do not dry immediately any remaining water drop it will become soon a salty dirty patch.

R
Alex


PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
with salt water I meant hard water.

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

between dev and fix use normal water. But put a tiny drop of washing detergent in the final rinse this should help prevent drying marks. I've never seen drying marks in my prints but when looking at my negs but you can see them on the surface. Its not so bad.

Developing your own film at home is not as hard as you appear to want it to be!

20 degrees, bung in the dev leave it for the prescribed time, giving the tank an over and under every minute. Pour out the dev. Rinse film a couple of times with fresh water. bung in the fixer leave it about 5 mins (read the instructions) pour that out. unscrew the lid of the tank, look at your lovely negs. Leave them on the reel and let the cold tap pour water through the middle of the reel for 5 minutes. Put a tiny drop of detergent in the water before you take out the film and hang it up to dry. piece of pi.. cake.

I dev my films in the kitchen while I'm cooking dinner sometimes


PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi thanks for keeping me motivated.
I would start ordering what I would need after I see what happens with the flim scanner costs.

Two questions
1. What would be the starting cost for the hardware and chemicals?
2. In the videos I have seen they use a small transparent glassy jar to measure the milliliters. CAn you use the same to measure all the chemicals? I was wondering what would happen if there are remaining chemical so mixing for example a bit of developer with the stop bath and so on..

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've told you what you need in another post so check out ebay for prices. The chamicals can vary I bought some Foma chemicals and it cost more in postage than the stuff its self. Buy cheap powder fixer and make it up. Try caffenol for development. google caffenol cookbook or search this forum.

the quanitites don't have to be so precise down to the last mil. I use a jug with millilitres on it. You can buy measuring cylinders cheap.

It could be worth looking for a set of developing equipment on ebay.

Cross contamination isn't a problem. Rinse out the jug/measure with cold water, if you can't smell the last solution then you are ok to use


PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks I will start today collecting hardware on ebay and I will ask for some comments

Alex


PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
one question here is if for developer if I understand right there are two options

1. Liquid that you dillute to water or
2. Powder that you dilute to water

I got a bit confused when I had a a look on the ILFORD information on processing film where I found that for cases like finest grain or maximum sharpness same liquid, like the DD-X can be used while the powder have two different options (one for grain one for sharpness)

Can someone shed some light here?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Powder and liquid form of the same developer are the same. In liquid form you are buying 90% water, powder is more economical, cheaper to post and is always fresh.

Sharpness and grain sort of go together, fine grain will make the images appear sharper anyway.


PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the answer... I find that the
Ilfotec DD-X liquid developer, diluted 1:4 with water click is kind of expensive for 26 euros.. How many developments I can do with this one?
I also see that is not very easy to find these things on the market.
Just search on ebay.com for Ilford DD-X and I got nothing

Also what is mean by diluted 1:4 That the liquid I buy from the bottle I have to further dillute or is it already dilluted with 1:4 ration.

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
An accurate photographic thermometer. Temperature is critical to the process, so a good thermometer is vital.

A method of timing the processes. Accurate timing is also critical, so a clock or stopwatch is needed. I used the clock on the microwave for my first film!


Hi,
1.why a normal thermometer will not do the job? I will just need to use a marker to mark the 20centigrades
2. How do you use the stopwatch? If I get it right you have to measure typically two events. The total duration of the development + the 30secs intervals where you need to shake the tank. How you measure both with one clock?
3. I bought two plastic cylinders that I can use markets on them. Specifically
http://www.ebay.de/itm/301035707135?var=600177151762&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
they are rated as 500ml but there is space above that
4. I bought this film changing bag http://www.ebay.de/itm/380744959976?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 (not sure about the quality though)
5. I am trying to find a paterson development tank for 35mm films but all look to be very expensive. Why? It is just a plastic container.

I will write tomorrow regarding my chemicals orders

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paterson tanks were the market leader in the UK and are very high quality. The tank is as you say just a plastic cylinder but there is an ingenious system built into the lid that blocks out the light and yet allows fluids to pour in and out. The spirals are precisely engineered to allow the film to be loaded simply and easily.

BTW I can't wait to see your comments once you've tried loading a spiral for the first time! Do it with a spare film in the light first.

Agitation is not an exact science. You wont lose your images because you agitated 35 or 40 seconds instead of 30. Some people don't agitate at all, thats called 'stand developing'.

When I develop films, for example 10 minutes, I give the tank a good shake, inverting it a couple of times then tap it lightly on the table (to release any bubbles that may have formed on the surface of the film). I invert the tank a couple of times each minute and start pouring the developer out about 10 seconds before the end. Then rinse. A few seconds will not matter, timing is not that precise with B&W.

Thermometers: I use a home brew thermometer, like photographic ones, it is graduated between 18 and 25c only. Household ones are less precise often measuring between -4 and 60. I doubt you could buy a homebrew thermometer in Germany but ebay ought to help.

Despite what everyone says and all the info that you are acquiring B&W developing is not hard and time/temp is not that critical. Yes 20C is best but 20.5 isnt going to kill your film. 9 minutes development time stretched to 9mins 10 seconds will make no noticable difference.

4-1 dilution means 4 parts water to 1 part developer. So in a regular tank that takes 300ml for one 35mm film use 60ml dev and 240ml of water. I use a medicine measurer usually free from a pharmacy. Cheaper and more accurate than a photographic one.