Bad news

[Orio]

Maybe I am ingenue, but I think that if a terrorist would like to photograph a target, he really would find a way to do it without being noticed (for instance, by using microcameras).
_________________
_
ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net

Read list of equipment HERE

[nemesis101]

As an ex-pat living in USA I cannot agree with this. There is NO connection between taking a photo and blowing up a train! There is in fact little connection between the amount of fear and money directed at 'security' and any gain in said security or abatement of risk...

Every month more die or are maimed on British roads than died or were injured in '7/7' and if a mere fraction of the money spent on inculcating fear in the populace, or so called 'security' was spent on road safety measures, more lives would be saved, and a very real, rather than largely imaginary risk would be averted. This whole decade reeks of 'moral panic' the whipped up fears of the populace, the press harassing the political establishment and the politicians' panic and determination to be 'seen doing' -doing what, however rarely matters...

The fiasco of the 'Dangerous Dogs act' was similar case in point - how do you determine a 'dangerous dog' until it has proved itself so? The idiot government of the day decided to 'profile' certain breeds as 'more likely.. ' etc. etc. The number oif dog attacks has NOT according to the government's own statistics, decreased.. Now apparently, as we cannot identify a terrorist until he or she has committed a terrorist act, we are following the same path?

This is idiocy of the highest order, but I now await the flames of those who say I am 'soft' on terrorism, or dangerous dogs or whatever. What., I wonder happened to reason? To outcome-oriented thinking? We are now apparently reduced to government sponsored panic!

I sadly await the day I can't take pictures in a park in case this 'poses a danger to children' or probably, in a street in case 'someone' may fear the back of their head appearing on Google Street View! Shame about all the thousands of CCTV cameras the British cry out for to 'protect' them from some unknown fear or another?! Now a 'smart' pedophile would get a job monitoring them, comfy warm viewing conditions, and 'protecting' the public too! lol

PS Now of course some screwball will say I must be one to think like that!

Come see 'Salem witch trials replay', 9pm Saturday, ITV3...

quote="peterqd"]Why do you say bad news? I don't see any problem here really, the law hasn't been changed or new restrictions added. Indeed, the Government Minister has reaffirmed that photography in a public place is legal and there is no presumption of right of privacy for individuals.

I'm not sure if you remember the recent bus and tube bombings in London and the arrests of other people trying to blow themselves up along with many other innocent people? A high level of security alert is normal here these days and I for one am very thankful to the police and others that we can feel relatively safe. In past cases, photographing the target area beforehand has been a common thread and, like it or not, it's a legitimate reason to arouse suspicion. They must have a really difficult time trying to decide if someone taking photographs is suspicious or not and, if they do occasionally make mistakes, I'd much rather they were over-cautious than nonchalant.[/quote]
_________________
Lenses and cameras:
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,51339.html#51339
Photo sites:
www.pbase.com/nemesis101/

[montecarlo]

same article, two links
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jun/05/news.terrorism
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/06/the_war_on_phot.html
_________________
Zenit E , Helios-44 58mm f:2.0 , Tair-11A 135mm f:2.8, Jupiter-9 85mm f:2.0
Porst Reflex TL , Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 35mm f:2.4 , Pentacon 50mm f:1.8 , Porst MC 135mm f:2.8 , Cosinon MC 200mm f:3.5
Ricoh XR7, Ricoh KR10, Petri MC 28mm f:2 , Chinon MC 28mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 50mm f:1.7, Ricoh 50mm f:1.7 , Soligor T 135mm f:2.8 , smc Pentax-M 75-150mm f:4
Pentax K100D , smc Pentax-DA 18-55 , smc Pentax-FA 80-320

[peterqd]

Yes, I wasn't trying to link the train bombings with photography at all. But for very sensitive possible targets such as Glasgow Airport, I feel much safer knowing the police are vigilantly checking everything, photographers included.

Anyone loitering around such places has to be suspicious, they could even be holding a camera just to try making themselves look LESS suspicious. Do you think I am being paranoid? If there had been more vigilance at the airports where the 9/11 terrorists boarded it wouldn't have happened. I don't mind being checked out if it saves lives.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G

[LucisPictor]

That's right, Peter. However, I do not want to be a suspect (and treated like one) just because I like to take photos. You know what I mean?

BTW, another interesting text: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/06/the_war_on_phot.html
_________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who divide the world into two kinds of people, and those who don’t.
"Schnäppchenjäger" | "KAPCTEH" | "Karusutenu" | "Carsten" | T-shirt?
Cams in use: EOS 40D, EOS 350D, EOS 50e, EOS 500, Spotmatic SPII, EXA I & 1c, Zenit EM; Oly 35RC,Minolta Hi-Matic E & F, Ricoh 500RF, Yashica Electro 35 GS, FED-3b and some others...
Lenses in use: Asahi Pentax: 2.8/28;3.5/35;1.4/50;1.7/50;2.8/105;3.5/135;28-80 | Canon (AF):1.8/50;17-85;75-300 | Former GDR: CZJ Flek 4/20; Pentacon 3.5/30; Pentaflex 1.8/50; CZJ 2.8/50; CZJ 4/135; Pentacon 4/200 | Fujinon: 43-75 | Hanimex: 3.5/23; 4/100;80-200 | Hoya: 25-42;80-205 | Leica: Elmarit-R 2.8/35 | Mamiya: 1.8/55 | Minolta: 1.7/50 | Nikkor: 2.8/24;2/35;2/50;1.2/55;1.8/85;3.5/135 | West German: Ludwig 2.9/50; Meyer 2.8/100; Will 4.5/105; Schneider 3.5/135;Enna 3.5/135; Zeiss 4/135;Isco 4/135; Enna 4.5/240 | Olympus: 3.5/28;1.4/50;3.5/135 | Rikenon: 1.7/50;35-70 | Rollei/Voigtländer: 1.4/55;1.8/50 | Russian: Peleng3.5/8; Zenitar2.8/16; MIR2.8/37; Volna2.8/50; Industar2.8/50; Industar3.5/50; Industar3.5/5cm; Helios2/50; Helios2/58; MIR38 3.5/65; Volna2.8/80; Jupiter2/85; Kaleinar2.8/100;Tair2.8/135; Jupiter3.5/135; Jupiter4/135; Telear3.5/200; Jupiter4/200; Tair4.5/300;RF: Jupiter2.8/35;Industar2.8/53 | Sigma: 28-85;28-105(AF);17-70(AF) | Soligor: 28-105;35-200;70-220 | Tamron: 2.5/24;2.5/135;60-300;70-210 | Tokina: 28-105;80-200;12-24(AF);70-210(AF) | Vivitar: 3.5/17;2/24;2/28;2.5/28;2.8/28 | Yashica: 2/5cm | Other Japanese: Cosina3.8/20; Albinar2.8/28; Porst1.8/35; Beroflex 8/500; Spiratone28-200; Maginon70-210
Green are the lenses I shoot the most.
More? http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65

[peterqd]

No, that's understandable. Neither do I. So we need to use a little common sense, realise that the police do have a serious and difficult job to do, and try not to act in a suspicious manner.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G

[nemesis101]

I don't think vigilance has much to offer re 9/11 as every bomber had legit identification? What it does show is the DANGER of relying on 'procedure' and 'vigilance' and if the UK does its Identity Card thing God help us? The government has already compromised millions of UK locals by losing private sensitive info on buses, trains, and a courier - let alone the mail! If this system did not exist then no-one could have obtained sensitive info on millions! Put all your trust in a card and you either have to accept is at face vale, which means forge a card and every door is open, or you have yet another check (like my producing a driver's license with my visa card here in Oregon USA) which defeats the notion of a single ID in the first place.

Control freaking has never and will never stop terrorists. What will, is the belief that no matter what they won't get what they want, and not giving them heaven-sent opportunities to recruit like the weird and wonderful 'war on terrorism' which, at least in Iraq, has led to the production of thousands more people with a motive to kill us?

Britain stood fast against the IRA. UDA etc. and WON.. It did not introduce draconian pass laws to do this - and detention without trial (internment) just made for more recruits. Why are we now adopting a policy shown to be a failure, rather than one which worked? Because politicians panic, afraid of being seen to do nothing, and the press whips up the public with massive fear mongering to pressure the politicians! Hmm..

If I was a terrorist (WHICH I AM NOT!) I would thank these governments for doing my work for me.. creating terror in the populace, destroying their national identity as freedom lovers, and finally removing most of their civil liberties in the name of 'protection'. Hmm again!

I remember the Cold war, when the Soviets and the East Germans were lambasted for their intrusive spying on individuals, for their xenophobic paranoia, for their myriad petty rules and regulations.. and hey here we are 20 years after that policy failed, doing the same thing? Perhaps we deserve what we get, as we are doing it to ourselves?

[peterqd]

OK I've put my point of view. You don't want to agree, that's fine, I'm not going to be drawn into an argument.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G