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Auto Revuenon 55mm 1:1.7 - Who made it?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Speculation....

Go do some research, produce some facts then you might have something worth saying.

Which part exactly is speculation?

Mamiya 28mm f2.8 early version:


Matching Tokina 28mm f2.8
and video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2aNBUN0hiU&feature=youtu.be

Mamiya 28mm f2.8 later version:


Matching Tokina 28mm f2.8


Mamiya 135mm f2.8 (one of the versions)


Mamiya 200mm f2.8 (one of the versions)


I am sure you know these 135mm and 200mm are made by Tokina.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LOL, just because some of the early lenses were bought in from other makers doesn't say anything at all about the later Mamiya production. Mamiya didn't even sell a 35mm SLR until 1961 and didn't sell a focal plane interchangeable lens 35mm SLR until 1964, so it's easy to understand why, in the 1960s, they would buy in lenses. However, the bayonet mount lenses are made by Mamiya themselves.

Pictures of similar looking lenses is shoddy proof at best, find some facts. Mamiya had their own lens factory, they produced their own lenses, having bought in a few models from other makers in the early days says nothing about the rest of their products.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
LOL, just because some of the early lenses were bought in from other makers doesn't say anything at all about the later Mamiya production. Mamiya didn't even sell a 35mm SLR until 1961 and didn't sell a focal plane interchangeable lens 35mm SLR until 1964, so it's easy to understand why, in the 1960s, they would buy in lenses. However, the bayonet mount lenses are made by Mamiya themselves.

Pictures of similar looking lenses is shoddy proof at best, find some facts. Mamiya had their own lens factory, they produced their own lenses, having bought in a few models from other makers in the early days says nothing about the rest of their products.

They are not just similarly looking lenses and I talked about lenses from the early M42 line. You called me speculator, I gave you a proof of my words. If you don't accept this it's your choice.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some (early) Mamiya lenses were rebrands, this is a fact. However, most medium format lenses were designed and manufactured by Mamiya. The entire SX lineup (with one or two occasional exceptions, mostly in zoom lenses) was manufactured by Mamiya. Some Rolleinar MC lenses were also manufactured by Mamiya (while some others were made by Tokina; and it's very easy to identify which ones are which). Comparing e.g. Tokina 135/2.8 of the period with Mamiya SX 135/2.8 lens reveals a huge difference in both construction and optical quality. Suggesting that Mamiya sourced some of their SX lineup from Tokina, some other lenses from Tomioka, and yet some other lenses from somewhere else is really pushing it. I disassembled quite a few Mamiya SX and Rolleinar lenses (85/2.8, 105/2.8, 135/2.Cool and saw a unique (and quite fragile) aperture control mechanism. Aperture on the 135/2.8 gets stuck often; a Tokina 135/2.8 has a much simpler and tougher aperture control mechanism that doesn't normally get stuck. Optically, Mamiya SX 135/2.8 is superb, while RMC Tokina 135/2.8 is mediocre.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aoleg wrote:
Some (early) Mamiya lenses were rebrands, this is a fact. However, most medium format lenses were designed and manufactured by Mamiya. The entire SX lineup (with one or two occasional exceptions, mostly in zoom lenses) was manufactured by Mamiya. Some Rolleinar MC lenses were also manufactured by Mamiya (while some others were made by Tokina; and it's very easy to identify which ones are which). Comparing e.g. Tokina 135/2.8 of the period with Mamiya SX 135/2.8 lens reveals a huge difference in both construction and optical quality. Suggesting that Mamiya sourced some of their SX lineup from Tokina, some other lenses from Tomioka, and yet some other lenses from somewhere else is really pushing it. I disassembled quite a few Mamiya SX and Rolleinar lenses (85/2.8, 105/2.8, 135/2.Cool and saw a unique (and quite fragile) aperture control mechanism. Aperture on the 135/2.8 gets stuck often; a Tokina 135/2.8 has a much simpler and tougher aperture control mechanism that doesn't normally get stuck. Optically, Mamiya SX 135/2.8 is superb, while RMC Tokina 135/2.8 is mediocre.


Well said.

I think you are correct, that some of the early Mamiya lenses were bought in, but once the SX range were released, they were producing their own lenses for their 35mm cameras. I own several Mamiya lenses of the CS and E/EF series, they are nothing like any other brands.

There's a list of which Rolleinar lenses were produced by Mamiya, I've posted it before.

I agree about the Tokina 2.8/135 too, it is mediocre, one of the least good 135s I've tried.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mamiya CS and E/EF series? Osawa, Cosina anyone? I think after SX series Mamiya had little to none to do with 135 film cameras.
Speculating naturally. You probably heard someone saying those last Mamiya lenses felt like toys. Mamiya made stuff never felt like toy.
Quite the opposite.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/mamiyalove/discuss/72157622739976080

Compare the top of this camera with typical COSINA of the time:
http://mamiya-ze.joerg-mueck.de/content.php?lang=de&category=1&subcategory=clones&subsubcategory=voigtlaender

Mamiya probably made those fine: 85/2.8, 105/2.8... But why the heck these lenses were not included in the CS and E/EF series?

When Osawa died, Mamiya 35mm production officially died. Medium format Mamiya did not. If Osawa was only distributor, surely Mamiya could find another one?


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems to me about all these questions on who made what, that maybe the Japanese are asking similar questions and maybe getting answers from ex employees etc...so we need a volunteer to read\write Japanese and trawl the Japanese web sites Wink


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
Mamiya CS and E/EF series? Osawa, Cosina anyone? I think after SX series Mamiya had little to none to do with 135 film cameras.
Speculating naturally. You probably heard someone saying those last Mamiya lenses felt like toys. Mamiya made stuff never felt like toy.
Quite the opposite.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/mamiyalove/discuss/72157622739976080

Compare the top of this camera with typical COSINA of the time:
http://mamiya-ze.joerg-mueck.de/content.php?lang=de&category=1&subcategory=clones&subsubcategory=voigtlaender

Mamiya probably made those fine: 85/2.8, 105/2.8... But why the heck these lenses were not included in the CS and E/EF series?

When Osawa died, Mamiya 35mm production officially died. Medium format Mamiya did not. If Osawa was only distributor, surely Mamiya could find another one?


That's just ridiculous. How many Mamiya E/EF leses have you owned? They are not toy-like in the slightest. The cameras ZE, ZE 2, ZM are nothing like any Cosina, they are very sophisticated electronically. I own a couple of them, they are nothing like any Cosina.

Osawa were a lensmaker as well as the distributor of Mamiya products, they were formerly the Japan division of Bell & Howell. Some info on their lenses here:

http://rherron.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=geninfo&action=display&num=1264510615

Quote:
J. Osawa Co. Ltd. was the world-wide distributor of Mamiya products and one of the leading trading houses for consumer products. They manufacturered their own range of fixed, zoom and macro lenses. Unfortunately, in 1984 the Osawa Co. went bankrupt.

J. Osawa & Co. Ltd. going bankrupt was one of the greatest economic failures in the Japanese history. Apparently this occasion was also the main reason for Icon: External link Mamiya to drop their Mamiya 35 mm SLR line.

Osawa did all their own lens design, engineering, and production on the lenses that carried their name. They had quite an extensive range of superp lenses. Some of the fixed focal length lenses were:

28 mm f/2.8
28 mm f/3.5
35 mm f/2.8
50 mm f/1.4
50 mm f/2 S
50 mm f/3.5 Macro
135 mm f/2.8
135 mm f/3.5
200 mm f/4
300 mm f/4

Some of the lenses in the Osawa zoom and macro lens range were:

28–50 mm f/3.5–4.5
35–70 mm f/3.5–4.5
35–105 mm f/3.5–4.3
70–150 mm f/3.8
80–200 mm f/3.8
75–260 mm f/4.5


This speculation based on things looking a little bit similar is just plain stupid. Mamiya made their own 35mm cameras and the lenses for them, with the exception of a handful of the very early ones in the 1960s. Calling their lenses toys or claiming Cosina made the cameras is insane, quite frankly.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To be fair, Cosina made a bunch of cameras and lenses for companies such as Nikon and Olympus (OM-2000 and its kit zoom). I believe some Ricoh cameras and lenses were also made by Cosina. A SMC Pentax 100/3.5 Macro lens was made by Cosina. Cosina made some Yashica cameras and Yashinon lenses (mostly zooms). So... Cosina might had something to do with Mamiya camera/lens lineup.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As far as I know, the Cosina cameras made for various makers, such as the Konica TC-X were all bottom of the range cheap things. The Mamiya ZM was probably the most advanced SLR when it was released. I don't have a ZM but I have a ZE-2 and it's nothing at all like a Cosina like the Konica TC-X.

Saying the ZM is a Cosina because it bears some passing similarity is like saying a horse must be a cow because it has four legs. Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've one with Tomioka grip style, like this:




It seems to be a lens with a good and correct contrast, it's enough sharp not at f=1,7, with a curios and sometimes charming bokeh.

Sample images:







PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have this lens as an Auto Chinon and it is a very nice performer from wide to closed down.
Enjoy yours.
OH



PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not a very good photo, but I have an Argus CR-1 with a 55mm, f2.0 lens. Same dimple grip as your Reveunon (which is falling off on mine.) The camera and lens were made by Chinon. It's also known as the Chinon CM, GAF I-CM, and Revueflex 1001. One thing for sure - this lens is sweet: clear, bright, and slightly soft - great for portraits, flowers, etc.

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