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Apo Lanthar test Reports
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and the prices continue to increase massively over the last few months due to high demand and nearly no supply.

I will have a CV 3.5/90mm for Nikon coming shortly btw.; the M42 version is already spoken for and on its way to a good friend.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the store links.

Quote:
I will have a CV 3.5/90mm for Nikon coming shortly btw.;

U mean for sale ? I thought u sold one already ..

My friend saw CV 125 samples on our site & keeps reminding me to find one for him every other week Razz


PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still kicking myself for not getting one when available new... and at sensible prices too!


PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yes, I have another excellent one coming in Nikon mount, which will be sold most likely...so here comes your chance


PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: they are nice Reply with quote

Piotrek wrote:
I have all of them and have used for last two years.
They are all great optics, good contrast, sharp and have good coating.
Very good modern lenses with MF, and good construction - full metal.
Good point of 90 and 180 is that they are small.

On the other hand: propertiary hood, metal construction is easy to scratch or dent and I think that dust has easy access to inside ;(

And finally: 90 minimum apperture is f3.5 and 180 is f4. Even if they are sharp from begining, BOKEH is not so nice. Vivitar 90 Series 1 has nicer bokeh at f5.6 than Voigtlander 90 at f3.5 - it is my personal opinion.
Similar situation is with voigtlander 180 comparing to Leitz 180/2.8.

So if someone needs small and sharp lens - vls90 and vls180 are for you.

http://www.pbase.com/piotreks/vls90

http://www.pbase.com/piotreks/vls125

http://www.pbase.com/piotreks/vls180


Piotr: Your images are world-class. You have been making the Apo-Lanthars sing with beauty.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the MTF - outstanding!!



PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Klaus: Shocked on the MTF chart. I'm not sure, but I don't think I've ever seen the curves so consistently high... Shocked


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, only the A+++ lenses do achieve such performance,
it simply proves the stunning images this lens generates.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Height is remarkable, but even more remarkable is the flatness at the edges and the little difference between sagittal and tangential lines.
This means the lens has nearly absent field curvature and very minimal spherical aberration.
The lens does not enlarge like a real macro but it's edge performance is better than most (if not all) true macro lenses that I have seen.
It would be interesting to see the distortion graph.

One word of caution, we don't know if these are MTFs made on real production lenses (like Zeiss does) or theoretical MTFs that a computer calculated based on the lens designs (as most companies do).


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Orio. I haven't seen anything like that for that lens for many months, before I just stumbled about that on a chinese site by coincidence. Most likely it is a computed MTF by rayetracing the theoretical design as most show.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
Most likely it is a computed MTF by rayetracing the theoretical design as most show.


Damn computers. They took the fun out of photography Wink


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No actually they made it happen! One of the first ZUSE computers (that should tell you sth) was given
by WILD to Mr Bertele, a Zuse 22 R to allow him to do his excessive lens design computations!!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even in the real life, actual MTF tests are also very good. Just check these reviews:

http://www.slrlensreview.com/web/voigtlander-slr-lenses-132/telephoto-slr-lenses-136/366-voigtlander-apo-lanthar-90mm-f35-sl-lens-review.html

http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/266-voigtlander-sl-90mm-f35-apo-lanthar-nikon-review--test-report?start=1

Even Mr. Erwin Puts, who is often accused of being partial to Leica has nice things to say about this lens:
Given the price of the Apo-Lanthar 90, this lens is a better choice than most second hand 90s from Leica on the market and is very close to the performance of the current 2.8/90, which is some act: the apo-lanthar is unbeatable in price/performance relation.

Cheers!

Abbazz


Last edited by Abbazz on Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found MTF for the 125 macro at various magnification factors and distances - 1:1, 1:2, 1m and what I assume is infinity.
Source: http://www3.xitek.com/bingqiku/cosina/lens/news4-21.htm
Uploaded here too for posterity.






PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Optical diagrams for the SL APO lenses Reply with quote

ChrisLilley wrote:
I assume the pink elements are ED glass or somesuch.


Yes. It means "extremely low dispersion glass"


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a conversation recently with an authorized CV dealer who said that there's a new Voigtlnder SL II lens due out late in 2010 but had no additional info. With the SL II (20) 40 and 58 out for some time now and the old SL I 75 non-APO interesting but not great and probably appealing to a limited audience, a fair guess would be that one of the APO's are next. The crazy prices the 125 is fetching on secondary markets cannot have missed the attention of Cosina executives in this weak world economy (last one in a Nikon-mount I saw on eBay sold for US$2100 in November '09).

As regards the MTF charts on the CV 90 Klaus kindly shared with us, the only lenses I know of that demonstrate similar extraordinary performance across the board are the Zeiss ZF/ZE 100/2, Leica R 90/2 APO and the Leica R 100/2.8 APO.
Pretty impressive company.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all due respect James, the myth of coming SL II of the 90-125-180 is out there for long but has never proven to be true. I personally would rate the chances that COSINA would rival ZEISS by producing competing products is the very same range they are offering the ZF/ZM/ZE/ZK lenses is quite low. The called off their own production of these when they started making the Zeiss lenses, so that was not just coincidence I would say. So I would certainly not hold my breath until then... Wink Wink

Well and especially that would show the weakness of some Zeiss design like the really disappointing LCA problem of the otherwise excellent 2/100 Makro


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
With all due respect James, the myth of coming SL II of the 90-125-180 is out there for long but has never proven to be true. I personally would rate the chances that COSINA would rival ZEISS by producing competing products is the very same range they are offering the ZF/ZM/ZE/ZK lenses is quite low. The called off their own production of these when they started making the Zeiss lenses, so that was not just coincidence I would say. So I would certainly not hold my breath until then... Wink Wink

I fully agree and I think the insane prices these lenses fetch now are no coincidence: it's because Cosina is not going to produce them that they are so much sought after...

kds315* wrote:
Well and especially that would show the weakness of some Zeiss design like the really disappointing LCA problem of the otherwise excellent 2/100 Makro

Many people (including reviewers) seem to completely ignore LCA. How many users have I seen on the forums bragging endlessly about their nice pictures, while all the pictures in question had horrible green halos around the out of focus background areas. Some very famous lenses have horrible LCA and they continue to be recommended all over the web...

Cheers!

Abbazz


Last edited by Abbazz on Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:


Well and especially that would show the weakness of some Zeiss design like the really disappointing LCA problem of the otherwise excellent 2/100 Makro


ha! the new Makro-Planar 2/100 is NOT ZEISS, is it?

It's the Cosina's product ! - So my point is that Cosina is NOT ABLE TO PRODUCE better lens for far better price then???

This is REALLY SAD -- on one hand, they produced Apo-Lanthars (price nowadays are crazy!) on the other hand, the Makro-Planar 2/100 is can not be successful on this highly competitive market!

So what's going on?? Cosina brand covers perfect product for insane prices (APO-LANTHARS) and the same bloody company is behind the ONE OF MOST FAMOUS brands IN THE GLOBE -- ZEISS and the Makro-Planar 2/100 is WORSE than APO-LANTHARS???

I simply don't like the brand Cosina Smile = spit personality Smile

So the weakness of the Makro-Planar 2/100 is weakness of COSINA Smile not ZEISS..

tf


Last edited by trifox on Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@abazz: I fully agree Sebastien, I have no clue why that OOF LCA problem is ingnored (or played down) so much. I was so terribly disappointed about that, that I sold my new ZF 2/100mm in favour of keeping my 2.5/125mm Makro Apo Lanthar (I had both in parallel which made comparison easy)

@Stan: I understood that the Makro 2/100mm as well as the other Zx lenses are genuine ZEISS designs, but manufactured to Zeiss given quaility standards by COSINA - a classic subcontracting / outsourcing case. So they are NOT Cosina designs. We should be correct about that to avoid confusion by readers. That Cosina stopped making their own (and better) product in favour of getting a several digit millon $ deal can be fully understood - who would not have signed that contrast in these economic times!? So that design weakness is a ZEISS issue, just to make things crystal clear (pun intended)!


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Marko-Planar is a Zeiss design, made by Cosina.
The Apo-Lanthars are Cosina designs.
Behind the brand names, there are people working.
Erhard Glatzel, Walter Woeltche, Heinrich Basista are those who made Zeiss lenses the top in the 60s, 70s and 80s with the Contarex and Contax SLR line of lenses.
It is obvious, and not only by the newer Makro-Planar 100, that the real designers who are behind the Zeiss name and lenses today, are not up to the tradition.

One common mantra is to blame Cosina for the quality control in the Z line of lenses. And compare them with how Kyocera was effective.
I think that the Voigtlaender SL line of lenses proves that Cosina is able to do both the building and the QC jobs quite right. Whereas the Z line of lenses proves that it is effeectively Zeiss which supervises the production, and it is Zeiss to blame for the not ideal QC and the shortcomings in performance of some of the Z lenses.

-


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
@abazz: I fully agree Sebastien, I have no clue why that OOF LCA problem is ingnored (or played down) so much. I was so terribly disappointed about that, that I sold my new ZF 2/100mm in favour of keeping my 2.5/125mm Makro Apo Lanthar (I had both in parallel which made comparison easy)

@Stan: I understood that the Makro 2/100mm as well as the other Zx lenses are genuine ZEISS designs, but manufactured to Zeiss given quaility standards by COSINA - a classic subcontracting / outsourcing case. So they are NOT Cosina designs. We should be correct about that to avoid confusion by readers. That Cosina stopped making their own (and better) product in favour of getting a several digit millon $ deal can be fully understood - who would not have signed that contrast in these economic times!? So that design weakness is a ZEISS issue, just to make things crystal clear (pun intended)!


Yes, Klaus.

Let's say -- ZEISS handling + COSINA investments (? - if any) = ZEISS MAKRO-PLANAR 2/100 is a crap in this MARKET Cool - the question is WHY.

That means that the quality of Zeiss Makro-Planar 2/100 doesn't reflect the price level in any way or Zeiss has a bad marketing strategy (?)
I don't know. If you have a name - like ZEISS have - it's really difficult to do acquisitions (even with Cosina)...
To keep your self in this market means to be aware of any consequences they may affect your 'name' (brand) later on

Speaking about economy CLIMATE = people spending STILL the same amount of money or even more in this time! Why?
They are trying to save their money by making investments - Zeiss 2/100 is NOT A GOOD OPTION ..

For some reasons people ALWAYS pay INSANE prices for products they are:

1 - at good quality level
2 - rare
3 - to make a profit on them ..

What's going on? Smile I am just asking -- I don't have too much information about Zeiss strategy --
So, please, if you have any, it would be great to know about them ...

thanks ..

Stan


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio - has made a good point - people ..

This is the spirit of the Zeiss -- their people always used to be great in their ideas and approach.

Another questions is -- where those people from Cosina are ? They could help with Makro-Planar 2/100 design ... Smile - just kidding Smile

the APO-LANTHARS were/are so great -- so why not to use their experience when creating Zeiss desings. Smile

tf


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Stan, you're asking questions only your "crystal ball" may be able to answer. A few years ago the marketing manager of Zeiss left Zeiss and went to Leitz in the same position (and experience and very well knowledgeable person) just when they started the Z-series of lenses. Coincidence?

@Orio: I full agree about the decline in quality Zeiss once was so very well known of, every single lens had been inspected and tested to fully comply to their very high inhouse standards. This seems to be not the case anymore with their Z-line, since I myself experience also quality issues on my RF lenses and I read about others too. And to re.iterate: this is NOT a COSINA issue, since Zeiss sets the standards, not Cosina.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those were all compelling arguments against the rebirth of Lanthars. Only time will tell whether the dealer I spoke to was right. For all I know, it may be the non-APO 75mm they're bringing back or perhaps the 180 or some other focal length not presently offered or planned by Zeiss.

The "Voigtlnder" name is still owned by Zeiss (only licensed to Cosina and predating the ZF/ZE/ZK/ZM contracts) so I imagine they do have a say how Cosina uses it.

Many of you have mentioned the LCA visible with the Zeiss 100. I suspect for (too) many non-discerning eyes, it simply is not a major factor when stacked up against the extraordinary resolving capabilities and speed of the lens. Personally, the "purple pollution" of an uncorrected lens drives me crazy; the Nikkor 180 ED I have owned since the mid-90's has seen limited use in recent years for this reason alone and what drove me to pick up the CV 180 (which, to be fair, is not perfectly apochromatic either despite the APO designation, but nearly so).