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Any Idea what that wooden 13x18 camera might be?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:54 pm    Post subject: Any Idea what that wooden 13x18 camera might be? Reply with quote

Picked up at the local plea-market the item.

https://scontent.fiev21-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67151504_2358924354194888_7820079468176736256_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQn2tFF9ek0zMXBHZX6FBPT-Ci-zpacq__h4FO9E-viBtz_GUgoSJd0j-v6S0MvU-KQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fiev21-2.fna&oh=43c3b93c98e2cd3658d115a77fe13316&oe=5DAF2B2C

https://scontent.fiev21-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67283444_2358923970861593_3025970121215574016_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQmGWIbH2ana5ig8a_HUZ1yXFMfDkby1zTnWwxnk3aJ5n_eM2vM7v6CH-Q-wOKrsy48&_nc_ht=scontent.fiev21-2.fna&oh=5d6454b17202567dbd7b014c5e9a27a3&oe=5DAD6193

Generally for the reason of the Heliar 180/4.5 lens.

https://scontent.fiev21-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67168821_2358923570861633_8505690895843065856_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQlDdzaFrrL876hcuuaiRyqX5CJa5ugCOti3g56OSZas6aPEBxkB9UejXc6wQgPtGrM&_nc_ht=scontent.fiev21-2.fna&oh=60269363e8517bf757735ae153e23a85&oe=5DABDDA3

However it had in the pack also Schneider Xenar Typ. D 15cm 3.5, Zeis Ikon Dominar-Ayastigmat 13.5cm 4.5 - both on the independed boards, plus Voigtlander Focar xii. And all shooters are working perfectly.

It was not too cheap unfortunately – I had not been able to bargain below $250. Twisted Evil

But I very coveted that Heliar. So, decided, at the end, that I should also have and 13x18 camera in my storage - for the further possible experience.

It has three double side plate holders, ready for the film (there are supporting glass plates inside), so it might be used? at least? with the medical roentgen films for the beginning.

Steel wonder very much of what origin that camera is. No traces in the internet. Perhaps somebody has any information concerning the item?


PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats! Nice find, indeed! The Heliar alone will sell with much more than what you paid for the camera.

LittleAlex wrote:

It has three double side plate holders, ready for the film (there are supporting glass plates inside), so it might be used? at least? with the medical roentgen films for the beginning.

Unfortunately, no. You'll need some adapters from glass plates holders to film sheets. You can find them on ebay.
They look like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-NOS-2x-5x7-Cut-Sheet-Film-To-Glass-Plate-Holder-Adapter-Septum-Germany/223575726064?hash=item340e26d7f0:g:PsYAAOSwPW9c-F1f


PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dan_ wrote:
The Heliar alone will sell with much more than what you paid for the camera.


Well?.. Then you really console me. Happy Dog


dan_ wrote:

Unfortunately, no. You'll need some adapters from glass plates holders to film sheets.


All the film holders have inside the unused cut film, under which there is the glass plate. I was certain it will be enough.

Thanks for the information!


Last edited by LittleAlex on Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Great find imho.

Could be custom made, maybe one of a kind camera. Any markings on it?


PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a bit of googling and I came across a couple of listings for cameras made by Mackenstein that were made in 13x18 cm format. Mackenstein, a Paris firm, was in business from the late 19th C to early 20th C.

Take a look through the pages here. Maybe you can match up one of these cameras with yours:

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/general/html/listeM_imagettes.php#Mackenstein


PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Could be custom made, maybe one of a kind camera. Any markings on it?


I discovered two of the kind already:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wooden-Camera-13x18cm-Doppel-Anastigmat-Kaelar-Serie-III-165mm-f-6-8-Lens-/264272255209

https://www.hi-fi.ru/auction/detail/1129800

But no significant information at any case.

Looks for me as rather some "limited edition"



visualopsins wrote:
Any markings on it?


It has the number 32 in the wood on the camera itself, and the same number, plus digits 94911 at the other place on the removable back. And that is all.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Maybe you can match up one of these cameras with yours:



Thanks!


PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleAlex wrote:

All the film holders have inside the unused cut film, under which there is the glass plate. I was certain it will be enough.

It could indeed work as a provisional solution. It may be more difficult to load the film holders with the sandwich of film and glass but once loaded the film would be in the correct position relative the ground glass.

The problem with this solution comes from the fact that the glass plates only need to be fixed inside the holder at some up and down points (they are rigid) while the film sheets need to be fixed along their perimeter as they are flexible.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dan_ wrote:
the glass plates only need to be fixed inside the holder at some up and down points (they are rigid) while the film sheets need to be fixed along their perimeter as they are flexible.


Yes I discovered it already. The very rims of film are little warp in the cassette.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All is clear now! Happy Cat

At the same place I discovered the original lens board of that camera. With the lens “R.O.J.A vorm Emil Busch A-G Rathenow Rapid Aplanat №2 Ser. D.F:8” upon it.

The seller did ask for it $70! Thank You Dog

Well, did I have any choose? Of course, I didn’t.

So, I bought it. At the lens ring there is the inscription “Jos. Pokorrny”. I searched, and discovered, that in the Russian Impair, till 1915, there was the photographical trade company under the name. Which, among other things, also did produce the format cameras under its name.
So, the camera had been produced in the Russia, possibly at the first decade of the 20-th century.

There is photo of the similar lens on the similar camera. Only the different series.




PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Passing again around, at the same place, had been offered by another native board from that camera, decorated by the lens, marked as is: “Carl Zeiss Jena №11271 Anastigmat 1:9 F-196mm D.R.P. 84996”.

Firstly I didn’t show much interest in it. However, when the offer had been reduced to $50, I finally gave up.

At home I started to investigate the Internet, trying to discover, what the baby it might be. My initial suggestion was that it has to be the kind of “Unar” lens. But when I discovered, that it has only two (perfectly clean and survived – have to mention) elements, then I started suspect, that it has to be rather ”Protar” design.

And really it looks exactly so! I discovered the following information for confirmation of that suggestion:

Series IIIa Anastigmat Protar f9.0 2 + 2 glasses (Layout Zei 007) To cover 97° This was made in: 75, 95, 120, 150, 172, 196, 230, 272, 317, 407, 505, 600, 690, 820mm where the first 4 were normally suplied with rotating stops as better adapted especially for matching exposure with a stereo pair. Later the range shrank to 75-317mm in 1907.
The series IIIa was suggested for stereo and hand cameras, and had the typical advantages of giving crisp and contrasty pictures and in addition was relarively small and light. It also could be sold as a useful wide angle lens, although this does not seem to have been stressed as much as with the Series V. But it is made use of in suggesting a 95mm lens for 6x9cm or a 120mm for 9x12cm. Today, it may seem rather near the Series II and IIa in aperture, but Zeiss seem to have sold them in parallel for a period before deleting the Series IIa.
Thus Series IIIa was one of the last of the unsymmetrical Protars to be in production. One reason may be price. It was probably inherently cheaper to make a 4 glass Series IIIa than a 5 glass Series IIa and in addition the customer could choose a shorter focal length and reduce the cost still more. Thus for 1/4plate, a Series IIa in 136mm with 5 glasses cost 95 Marks while a Series IIIa option would be 120mm at 65 Marks or a 150mm at 75 Marks.
Incidentally, it was sold as "Reg'd No 41,715/1899" which may be a patent or register design. An example was on a "Block Notes" body No141x VP size as f9/175mm No62,25x.
It seems to be one of the least easy to find today. No example has been seen so far although it has been noted on Stereo cameras. It was fitted by Ernemann, Boulade, Huttig, and Palmos but in 1901, the f8 seems to have been the preferred item


https://docplayer.net/22641054-Anastigmat-protar-protar-v11a-planar-tessar-sonnars-hologon-topogon-biogon-s-pre-1890-type-designs-non-anastigmats.html




PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thus for 1/4plate, a Series IIa in 136mm with 5 glasses cost 95 Marks while a Series IIIa option would be 120mm at 65 Marks or a 150mm at 75 Marks.

For the pure curiosity I did some calculations (using information from the Web) concerning the possible cost of The Series IIIa Protar 196/9.0 in the modern value. It came (approximately) that the new lens would cost today something around $470.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have already discovered the good use for the Rapid Aplanat, obtained from that camera, upon the medium format Mamiya 645E.

Long time dreamed to explore some “aplanat” formulae for the portraits.