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TijmenDal
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Posts: 206
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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TijmenDal wrote:
I'd recommend winging it with the Sunny 16 as well.
And to the guy using Sunny 16 with chromes: hat off to you. I wouldn't dare to go there!
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5019
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| TijmenDal wrote: |
I'd recommend winging it with the Sunny 16 as well.
And to the guy using Sunny 16 with chromes: hat off to you. I wouldn't dare to go there! |
Does seem odd using sunny 16 in 2014 when you can pick up a Weston V with invercone (for incident light readings for £10) the incident light reading as well as the Kodak grey card are sunny 16 which are the same as green grass, blue sky and light grey pavement and similar, if you have a metered camera that can be set for manual reading.....and that's the exposure I use as a basic start and not sunny 16.
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
Perhaps it does seem funny in 2014. But the cameras here are 20th century technology and most of the cameras I use are older than I am 57+ years.
I have had bad experiences relying on old meters, so prefer to use the sunny 16, its more reliable and has been a tried tested and proven technique for generations.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5019
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
There is an amusing side to it....if you went out with a gang of photographers with their super duper cameras and waving £150 light meters around, and you just look at the sky and say " a bit of pollution around today the sun is not as bright, Ill make it sunny 11" sorta like crocodile Dundee looking at the sun and saying "it's 3 o'clock". 
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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kansalliskala
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 5028
Location: Southern Finland countryside
Expire: 2016-12-30
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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kansalliskala wrote:
Best way of getting there is to get a D3200 and pre-ai lenses.
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MF: Kodak DCS SLR/c; Samsung NX10; OM-10; Canon T50
Zuiko 28/3.5, Distagon 35/2.8; Yashica ML 50/2;
Zuiko 50/1.4; S-M-C 120/2.8; Zuiko 135/3.5; 200/5;
Tamron AD1 135/2.8, Soligor 180/3.5; Tamron AD1 300/5.6
Tamron zooms: 01A, Z-210
Yashicaflex C; Київ 4 + Юпитер 8, 11; Polaroid 100; Olympus XA; Yashica T3
Museum stuff: Certo-Phot; Tele-Edixon 135; Polaris 90-190; Asahi Bellows; Ixus IIs
Projects: Agfa Isolette III (no shutter), Canon AE-1D (no sensor),
Nikon D80 (dead), The "Peace Camera"
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012
Posts: 1826
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
When using sunny 16, I tend to look at my shadow. Sharp shadow = f16; defined shadow but with softer edges = f11; blurry unclear shadow = f8; a hint of a shadow near to my feet = f5.6; no shadow = who cares about the aperture, where's the pub?
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Lots of 35mm Film Cameras
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New Vlog on Youtube called "The Olduns Shot"
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBHCOHaIrcYr7s3is1EcqxQ |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
| skida wrote: |
| When using sunny 16, I tend to look at my shadow. Sharp shadow = f16; defined shadow but with softer edges = f11; blurry unclear shadow = f8; a hint of a shadow near to my feet = f5.6; no shadow = who cares about the aperture, where's the pub? |
Excellent tip!
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:33 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
I guess for iso 200 shutter speed should be 1/250
and for iso 400 1/500?
Alex |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5019
Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| alaios wrote: |
I guess for iso 200 shutter speed should be 1/250
and for iso 400 1/500?
Alex |
Indeed but you don't have to use those shutter speeds in dull conditions as you can vary the aperture in the lens....a combo of both. And remember sunny 16 only applies to subjects in that light, anything not in that light would give you increasing under exposure. e.g. shadows
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
| alaios wrote: |
I guess for iso 200 shutter speed should be 1/250
and for iso 400 1/500?
Alex |
In the old days, box cameras had shutter speeds about 1/30th to 1/60th matching the rather slow speeds of films in those days 50 to 80 ASA. This is what the sunny 16 is based upon.
With fixed aperture box cameras (f11) there were problems with dull light. more sophisticated cameras had another aperture or may be even 3! One of mine is f7, f11 and f16
All cameras had B which allowed you to open the shutter manually for longer to get better exposures.
With cameras of limited capability came exposure problems in low light so the technique of 'pushing' film was created. This effectively raised the ASA speed by 'cooking' development. Achieved by different formulations of developer, longer processing times or increasing the temperature.
You have a sophisticated more modern camera, sunny 16 should be easy.
Looking forward to seeing any photos.
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 1437
Expire: 2017-05-23
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:51 am Post subject: |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
Wow! complicated but good. I'm pretty sure I saw similar in an old BJP almanac...
... later. Here it is plus page 440 referred to in the text - a useful film speed converter. Not quite the same but pretty complicated none the less.
I prefer to wing it, 4 or 5 apertures are easy to remember. The film latitude takes care of the rest
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Two brief my questions before I load my iso 200 at my Zenit that does not have a light meter.
Shutter speed should be 1/250 I guess and then use the f values as are described in the tables you gave me. I guess the easiest start would be to try and find the "extreme" locations like: direct sunny light or fully cloudy.
One more for the members here: Do you still use your light meter if you know those table that well? I was just wondering if one learn those tables so good what would he need a light meter? 
Alex |
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012
Posts: 1826
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:42 am Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
I had acquired a light meter that used to be powered by mercury batteries, which are now unavailable, so I ordered a Wien Cell replacement. After two trips out with it I put it away in the cupboard and went back to "sunny 16s". It works well in most light (it only gets difficult in really gloomy weather) and even if you get it a little bit wrong the film's latitude will forgive you and still provide useable images.
I suggest you just get out there and run off a film or two. I think you will be surprised and delighted.
Just to reinforce that advice, I dug out a thread I posted a while ago, which shows the possibilities when shooting by manual calculations:
http://forum.mflenses.com/52yo-zeiss-ikon-contina-fixed-pantar-40-2-8-kodak-gold-200-t48429,highlight,%2Bcontina.html
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Lots of 35mm Film Cameras
Lots of Lenses
New Vlog on Youtube called "The Olduns Shot"
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBHCOHaIrcYr7s3is1EcqxQ |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi
I have spent the day shooting film. What a lovely experience is that????
I was using the simple f/16 rule
so for my iso 200 I set the shutter speed 1/200.
F/16 for direct sun light
f/11 with partially sun ligh
f/8 for light clouds
f/5 for deep fatty clouds
f/4 for dawn....
although I have to admit that the light at noon if is f/16 then I would expect that the direct sunlight at 17:00 is not f/16 any more.
I was also using one stop faster shutter speed so 500 or slower so 125 adjusting aperture accordingly.
I wish though I also had half of stops available as my all lenses have also half apertures increments that would give me more combos when shooting.
Now I have captured the film what I am doing next? Should I ask for scanned negatives or scanned developed images? What do you ask from your photo store what is a nice format for editing in photoshop and uploading on the web. I really would like to share all my shots here
Alex |
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012
Posts: 1826
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
Each person has their own preferences, but I prefer to have the negs processed and scanned to CD. I never bother with prints.
_________________
Lots of 35mm Film Cameras
Lots of Lenses
New Vlog on Youtube called "The Olduns Shot"
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBHCOHaIrcYr7s3is1EcqxQ |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:33 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
| skida wrote: |
| Each person has their own preferences, but I prefer to have the negs processed and scanned to CD. I never bother with prints. |
I would agree, especially for a 'test' like this. The quality of supermarket scans isnt that great but the exposure and colours will be there. You'll know if you did a good job. And, I think you wont be scared of not using a meter again. Once you go bareback you will again! Looking forward to your results.
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
I was just wondering if one can have also the negatives scanned and process those in the computer somehow..
wondering just |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
Scanning negs can be done by you using a suitable flatbed with neg capability, a dedicated neg scanner or a supermarket neg scanner. Each type will correct the colour but give different results.
Here is a page dedicated to them:
http://slidescannerreview.co.uk/
Get them devved and scanned at the shop to see how you've done. Think about a scanner if you are going to be using film more.
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
I have to admit that I have enjoyed so much the process so far. I was so excited to use the f/16 rule and take shots all day long. I was expecting results very happily.
Today got the last shot and tried to retrieve film back. as I tried pulling back flim broken and door opened (I left everything on a trash). Everything is lost
I was shooting with Zenit ET and I do not think I did something wrong to retrieve film back perhaps camera is broken or what |
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 961
Location: Austin
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
| alaios wrote: |
I have to admit that I have enjoyed so much the process so far. I was so excited to use the f/16 rule and take shots all day long. I was expecting results very happily.
Today got the last shot and tried to retrieve film back. as I tried pulling back flim broken and door opened (I left everything on a trash). Everything is lost
I was shooting with Zenit ET and I do not think I did something wrong to retrieve film back perhaps camera is broken or what |
That's a major bummer. If you are not aware of any idiosyncrasies of this model I suggest reading the user's manual: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/russian/zenith-e/zenith-e-splash.htm |
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012
Posts: 1826
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
My first SLR (back in the 70s) was a Zenit EM and I enjoyed a happy time learning about shooting with it until I eventually upgraded to an Olympus OM10.
When I decided to get back into film photography a few years ago, Zenit was one of the makes I decided to acquire. What a disappointment! I have acquired about 6 or 7 bodies and every single one of them has a problem! I guess they suffer from their years of use and neglect. Prakticas are another make with a dubious reliability reputation, but my 4 are all working fine.
I think you would do well to find a more reliable M42 body, such as the older offerings by Pentax and Fuji.
I share your disappointment in losing the shots you took as I had a similar experience with a Zenit E: I loaded a film, closed the back before travelling some distance to a fairly unique location. When I returned home with the expectation of many "sure-fire keepers", I discovered that the return spring on the locking mechanism had failed and the back hadn't remained properly closed, resulting in all shots being ruined.. The only consolation was that I also took an OM10 which worked perfectly (and still does).
Don't be disheartened. You will soon be producing shots that delight you!
_________________
Lots of 35mm Film Cameras
Lots of Lenses
New Vlog on Youtube called "The Olduns Shot"
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBHCOHaIrcYr7s3is1EcqxQ |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi
I guess I have to wait for my minolta x700 to arrive....
Is a pitty though that in minolta I can not turn off the light meter.
Do they produce any manual lens cameras these days??? I am getting sick with those old cameras that do not any more work..
Alex |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 724
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi
I had a look on the manual
but my camera does not have the film release knob.... Weird
UNLOADING THE CAMERA
(See p.14 for Zenith E)
When the exposure counter dial shows figure (36 or 20) it means that the exposed film should be rewound into the cassette. The procedure is the following:
1. Disengage the shutter mechanism by pressing the film-rewind release button and, holding it in this position, rotate the film rewind knob in the direction shown by the indicating pointer until you feel, by the relaxed force, that the end of the film has left the spring of the take-up spool.
2. Open the back cover of the camera.
3. Pull the film rewind knob upwards and remove the film cassette out of the camera.4www.butkus.org |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
I'm gutted you ruined your film.
The film release is a small button normally located under the camera. This is the customary place with most 35mm cameras made after 1960, before then it may have been anywhere! Except the Russians!
The rewind button is on top of the camera marked red in this photo. You must press it down and hold it down until you finished rewinding.
You can use the X-700 in manual mode, just don't select P or A. Ignore the lights in the finder.
Good luck!
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