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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12543
Location: West Emilia
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 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: |
I completly agree with HCB because there's no postproduction that can salvage a bad shot. You can improve a good shot, |
This is not what HCB meant. You took his sentence (a theoretical, I would say philosophical sentence) and used it in another context (a merely procedural context) , and no wonder you completely agree, because you agree to what you think, not what HCB used to think.
| A G Photography wrote: | | But this is not betraying the truth of the moment because this truth simply doesn't exist, this is another myth. There's the truth of the artist vision, just like in every other art. |
This is your opinion. For me when you take the picture of a sunny landscape and by use of Photoshop you make it look like the final hour of the Apocalypse, you are betraying the truth of that moment. Of course you are free to do it, but this is another story. For me, photography is one thing, pixellography is another. Maximum respect for the great photoshop artists, but that is not photography anymore, that is something different. It's computer graphics, basically, where photography is used like an ingredient to a larger recipe.
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
   
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12543
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: |
Just as an example: one of my best shots is a violinist playing in a public park. I didn't make a lot of postprocessing on the image, just converted to B&W (it was digital), some burning of the background and a level adjustment, usual stuff.
Well, I can say that this musician was terrible at playing, was basically a beggar with an asshole attitude (he threatened a friend of mine asking for money) and his main interest was the beer bottles that stayed near to him (but out of the frame). So where is the truth? |
If you took a non sincere photograph, don't blame that on Photography: blame it on yourself.
_
_________________
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 932
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Orio wrote: | | A G Photography wrote: |
Just as an example: one of my best shots is a violinist playing in a public park. I didn't make a lot of postprocessing on the image, just converted to B&W (it was digital), some burning of the background and a level adjustment, usual stuff.
Well, I can say that this musician was terrible at playing, was basically a beggar with an asshole attitude (he threatened a friend of mine asking for money) and his main interest was the beer bottles that stayed near to him (but out of the frame). So where is the truth? |
If you took a non sincere photograph, don't blame that on Photography: blame it on yourself.
_ |
Next time I'll shot just Uto Ughi to make you happy.
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 932
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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And to make things clearer I don't claim that shot is photojournalism.
You have clearly some confusion into what photography is.
It's just like that is if you read a romance you argue that it's not realistic and objective.
I won't discuss anymore with you on these points. It's just like talking with priests about s e x. Myths and absolutes, It's no fun neither useful.
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12543
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: | | Orio wrote: | | A G Photography wrote: |
Just as an example: one of my best shots is a violinist playing in a public park. I didn't make a lot of postprocessing on the image, just converted to B&W (it was digital), some burning of the background and a level adjustment, usual stuff.
Well, I can say that this musician was terrible at playing, was basically a beggar with an asshole attitude (he threatened a friend of mine asking for money) and his main interest was the beer bottles that stayed near to him (but out of the frame). So where is the truth? |
If you took a non sincere photograph, don't blame that on Photography: blame it on yourself.
_ |
Next time I'll shot just Uto Ughi to make you happy. |
You are missing the point. Photography is made of choices. You could choose to make a sincere photograph, and show that man for what it is. Show the beer bottles, show what was real about him. Show his ugliness.
Instead, you choosed to aesthetize it. You choosed a point of view where the bottles weren't visible (or erased them with Photoshop, it's the same), you modified the background to make the subject stand out in a glorious light... you basically choosed to reproduce the romantic cliché of the lonely player in the park blessed by the sunlight.
You aesthetized your subject, you put make up over it.
Now, I love Cosmin's work, and you also say you do - you say you would like to steal his eyes - but it's difficult to understand you when you say so, because you are doing exactly the opposite of what he does. Cosmin does not aesthetize the reality: he photographs the things the way they are.
Cosmin does not clone out the cigarettes left on the ground, he does not hide the beer bottles when they are there, he does not "enhance" background or subject with photoshop brushes... he has a very straight "régard" on the reality. He does not hide something from what he has in front of him because he thinks it's not aesthetically beautiful or conforming to an aesthetical ideal. He does not embellish the reality or put make up over it to make it look different from what it is. And his straightness of vision is his force. This is why his street photos are strong, and your violin player photo is weak. In my humble opinion, of course.
_________________
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 932
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Read it again, evidently it's not clear:
"And to make things clearer I don't claim that shot is photojournalism.
You have clearly some confusion into what photography is.
It's just like that is if you read a romance you argue that it's not realistic and objective."
You won't have any other answer, told you. It's pointless.
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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spkennedy3000
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 317
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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What an interesting discussion...
I must admit I am not a fan of Anna Pagnacco, I saw her work on Flickr a while back, but there you go.
My take on this is that I dispute the fact that a photograph can be any kind of truthful record of an event or situation - there are too many choices. From the decision to make a photograph (or not - itself a choice) to the production of an image there are any number of decisions, each of which has a profound influence on the final image. The type of film or digital camera, the angle of view, the position of view, what to include and what not to, and so on. Some photographs might appear to contain a more realistic image than others, but nowhere contained in any photograph is any kind of absolute truth, how could there be?
To take a photograph you must make a number of these decisions. To look at any photograph is to view a highly individual and subjectified object, the product of a large number of personal creative decisions.
I personally feel that the decision to use or not use certain tools of creativity such as burning, dodging, red filters, wide angle lenses, photoshop (not burning, not dodging no red filter, no wide angle lens. no photoshop) is purely a matter of taste therefore and not one of philosophical purity.
I am sure my pics are far too Photoshopped for many people, but I don't mind at all - it is pure creative thrill and fun for me and that is why I do it (instead of what I am supposed to be doing a lot of the time!!)
_________________
G2 21 28 45 90
5d with flek 35mm f2.4 and zuiko 18mm f3.5, zuiko 24mm f2.8, zuiko 28mm f2.8, Canon EF 50mm f1.4, Nikon 105mm f2.5. |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12543
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: | Read it again, evidently it's not clear:
"And to make things clearer I don't claim that shot is photojournalism.
You have clearly some confusion into what photography is.
It's just like that is if you read a romance you argue that it's not realistic and objective."
You won't have any other answer, told you. It's pointless. |
I will avoid to reply about your rude manners.
About the content, I have to repeat, that just because you choosed to fake a subject, this does not mean that all photography is about faking subjects.
When you took that photo, you choosed to tell a lie - you say that you wanted to make a "romance" and make an imagery of invention - that's ok for me (although it feels like postcard) but then why pretend that it is impossible to make a straight photo instead?
Your photo is technically good but that is as far as I can appreciate it. As a street photo/snapshot (what you despisedly and wrongly call "photojournalism"), it lacks strenght, because you made it "leché" and pretty, instead of making it honest.
As a romantic photo, which -based on your statements- is apparently what you wanted to make, it looks cliché to me. Sorry.
As for the photojournalism, I have to remind you that realism is far more than photojournalism - it is an artistic genre. And a very old one at that - much older than newspapers.
_________________
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 932
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Orio wrote: |
I will avoid to reply about your rude manners.
About the content, I have to repeat, that just because you choosed to fake a subject, this does not mean that all photography is about faking subjects.
When you took that photo, you choosed to tell a lie - you say that you wanted to make a "romance" and make an imagery of invention - that's ok for me (although it feels like postcard) but then why pretend that it is impossible to make a straight photo instead?
Your photo is technically good but that is as far as I can appreciate it. As a street photo/snapshot (what you despisedly and wrongly call "photojournalism"), it lacks strenght, because you made it "leché" and pretty, instead of making it honest.
As a romantic photo, which -based on your statements- is apparently what you wanted to make, it looks cliché to me. Sorry.
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Yep it looked so much cliché and fake and weak that when I proposed it into this thread
http://forum.mflenses.com/best-3-photo-taken-by-you-t5857,start,15.html your comment was:
| Orio wrote: | I love #1 and # 3, Alessandro.
Congratulations! |
This was the #1.
So you know why I'm rude. Because you're talking just using prejudices, as I told you before, just like priests with s e x.
This is the main reason I won't talk you anymore about this stuff. it's unuseful. It's like talking with a religious fanatic.
P.S.: I'm eagerly waiting your WeeGee and HCB style shots.
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12543
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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So what? Technically is a good photo. I appreciated that aspect.
| Quote: | | So you know why I'm rude. |
This is not a good reason for being rude.
| Quote: |
Because you're talking just using prejudices, as I told you before, just like priests with s e x.
This is the main reason I won't talk you anymore about this stuff. it's unuseful. It's like talking with a religious fanatic. |
Then why you keep replying to me?
| Quote: | | P.S.: I'm eagerly waiting your WeeGee and HCB style shots. |
How pathetic. You act like a block braggart kid "show me your knife you chicken" and things like that.
Well, first, maybe you think that doing photograph means to follow someone's style - I don't. I may be the less worth of photographers on the earth but at least I do it MY way. I don't copy anyone, I don't copy photos from the magazines, and things like that. I don't go for a "style" - I am content with just being my self.
And I surely never pretended to be a great and not even a good photographer. I don't have the ambition of becoming a professional, as you have. My aim is not to build my portfolio, as you do. I am only a hobbyist.
I just photograph the things I like in the way that suits me best. I do it without any pretention of being any good. The only merit that I see in what I do is that I do it honestly - I don't masquerade to pretend to be a great photographer or to follow in any great master's steps.
One final note, since your aim is to become a professional, you should accept criticism better. Criticism is what makes artists better.
_________________
_
ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 932
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Orio wrote: |
How pathetic. You act like a block braggart kid "show me your knife you chicken" and things like that.
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Not as much pathetic as someone who first "love" (not "like", "decent", "interesting", but "love") a shot and after one month that same shot becomes cliché, fake and weak: or it was crap one month ago and you said it otherway for some strange reason, or it is suddendly now because you must prove a point.
And it's not critics that hurted me, any critic is welcomed when photos are public (and anyway how this should prevent me to appreciate Cosmin's work is a mistery). Honest critics of course.
It's the behaviour and the fact that every discussion is cheated from start with prejudices this way and I think this is pretty obvious for anyone reading this thread.
And yes this thing really hurted me because it's a matter of reciprocal trust even when opinions differ.
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
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DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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Puplet
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| My father had a great idea for ending arguments like this: he would get out a big bottle of cognac, and pour everyone a large glass and say, 'Drink!' When everyone had finished he'd do it again. And again. And, by the time, everyone was sitting on the floor, they'd be happy and good friends. It's a bit early in the morning for cognac at the moment, but maybe we can do that virtually? |
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 932
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Puplet wrote: | | My father had a great idea for ending arguments like this: he would get out a big bottle of cognac, and pour everyone a large glass and say, 'Drink!' When everyone had finished he'd do it again. And again. And, by the time, everyone was sitting on the floor, they'd be happy and good friends. It's a bit early in the morning for cognac at the moment, but maybe we can do that virtually? |
One couldn't say no to a good Courvoisier even if early in the morning 
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12543
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: |
Not as much pathetic as someone who first "love" (not "like", "decent", "interesting", but "love") a shot and after one month that same shot becomes cliché, fake and weak: or it was crap one month ago and you said it otherway for some strange reason, or it is suddendly now because you must prove a point.
And it's not critics that hurted me, any critic is welcomed when photos are public (and anyway how this should prevent me to appreciate Cosmin's work is a mistery). Honest critics of course.
It's the behaviour and the fact that every discussion is cheated from start with prejudices this way and I think this is pretty obvious for anyone reading this thread.
And yes this thing really hurted me because it's a matter of reciprocal trust even when opinions differ. |
You can not call me dishonest and cheater.
And now you please NEVER talk to me anymore.
I hope this is clear: N-E-V-E-R
In this thread you have insulted me in various ways and compared me many times with idiot one-minded people.
I tried to ignore your offensive comments but my patience has a limit - and you have trespassed it abundantly.
And another thing, just so you are prevented: never talk this way to any other of our members, because I will not allow you to be unrespectful to other people. I do not tolerate your rudeness in our forum, and I am not taking action now because I am directly involved.
I hope this comes to your ears clear and loud.
The thread is locked, and it's the second time I have to lock a thread because of your rudeness and lack of manners.
There will not be a third time.
_________________
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
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