Anamorphic lenses for an M42 system?

[Athiril]

Hi guys,

havent posted in ages.

In my last year of Bachelor of film production, and will be shooting a project on film stock (as in motion picture) for my final project for my degree.

Anyway, picked up a Krasnogorsk-3 M42 lens mount

16mm motion picture camera.


One of my ideas for some serious (and portable image quality from this thing) was widening the gate out to super-16.

Putting a tripod mount on the side of the film mag, and mounting the camera sideways, to shoot the film horizontally, then tripling the film 'height' (now width in horizontal orientation) out to something like approx 22.86mm over 3 perfs (1.83:1 ratio from memory) or like 2 perfs (approx 15.24mm, ) anamorphic.

With a film height of 12.52mm.

Quality of 35mm in portable equipment with lower film cost mmm

Could use 4 perf too if Im feeling generous for approx 2.4:1 ratio.


Already dev my own B&W and c41 at home, and have my eyes on a large 16mm tank

With plans to shoot with a dslr + macro lens back though the lens mount of the camera running the film through in animation mode that triggers shutter cable + backlight on the film - already tested this on still film - get about 3000 dpi of real detail with a reversed 50mm from memory (and it works very very well), also have a bellows, so can front mount the lens and shoot normally to capture entire pic area if needed.

In any case, only need 2200 dpi for 1080p on 3-perf horizontal 16mm, or 1460 dpi for 720p.


Now Im not familiar with anamorphic lenses - if I were to shoot 2 perf anamorphic (which would be same dpi for same res and just stretch horizontally in post or with another anamorphic lens on macro telecine, or higher res, then just reduce height resolution in post etc) I would want a high quality (sharp) anamorphic lens.

Can I get an addon lens rear or front that converts to an anamorphic lens, and of decent quality?

Or should I get (if they exist and in good quality) a M42 lens thats already anamorphic?

Not sure if anamorphic is worth the trouble, but 3-perf horizontal sure is

[themoleman342]

Didn't Isco do some anamorphic lenses? Not sure about M42 mount and they might just be projector stuff. Sorry I wish I knew more.

~Marc
_________________
I've been doing a lot of abstract photography lately, extremely abstract. No camera, no lens, no film, I just think about it.

~adaptation of a joke told by the American comedian Steven Wright.

[dof]

Kowa made some anamorphic projection lenses for 16mm. I had one once
but sold it as I had no use for it. It had a threaded mount but I don't recall
the diameter. It could probably be adapted to M42 without much difficulty
but it's a projection lens, not a taking lens, so I don't know how well that
would work.

These sell on the bay pretty regularly. Some are branded as B&H but made
by Kowa.

That's about all I know.

[estudleon]

[greg]

I recently purchased, from hacksawbob, a Kowa Prominar Anamorphic 8-Z lens. I have not had a chance to actually take any serious shots with it yet.

It has a 52mm filter thread. The little I have fooled with it, along with the sparse gleanings on the Internet regarding still photography with anamorphic lenses, confirms that it is meant to be mated to a prime or zoom lens as an auxilliary lens.

This in the same fashion as the el cheapo wide and tele add ons for under $20USD on eBay. The quality of this lens, however, is very obviously a cut ot two above such offerings.
_________________

Various DSLR/Film bodies and MF lenses

[estudleon]

Perhaps it can be usefull to you, I hope so

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=37554

Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9

Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.

RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar.

[greg]

estudleon,
Thanks for the link, the postings are current and topic worthy.
Greg
_________________

Various DSLR/Film bodies and MF lenses

[kds315*]

[estudleon]

Thanks Klauss!

You are one of the few members that have pristine beauties, very rare lenses, and use them in the nice way.

But, Ioseph Schneider CO = ISCO?

Rino.
_________________
Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9

Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.

RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar.

[kds315*]

Schneider bought ISCO (Joseph Schneider Optische Werke) August 15th, 2008:
http://www.pressebox.de/pressemeldungen/jos-schneider-optische-werke-gmbh/boxid-197845.html
_________________
Klaus

http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV diary


Currently most FAV lens(es):
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Voigtländer (Cosina) Apo-Makro-Lanthar f2.5 125mm SL

Want to travel to Europe and see spots hardly anyone has seen, read this:
http://www.examiner.com/x-6661-Germany-Travel-Examiner

[Sevo]

[Aykman]

Hi,

maybe I can help - I was a Assistant DoP in the 90s and have quite knowledge with Anamorphic lenses. I worked with Anamorphic lensen with Super8, 16mm and with HDV.

Here my theories which I tell in my "filmmaking" lessons:

1) Standard vs. Anamorphics

Think about the essential question: Why do I need Anamorphic? Does anamorphic offer any advantages with less disadvantages? Or do I need anamorphic for fake "big movie" look? Do I have any alternatives?

Here some Pro points:

- Interesting look
- anamorphic squeezing

Here the Contra:

- decreasing image quality (because most of the anamorphic lenses for projection are not coated and optimized for projection and not recording. My Test in the early 90s showed that the Kowa, BellHowell and Prominar anamorphic degraded image quality. You loose sharpness, contrast).

- Squeeze Factor (the projection lenses offer 2x squeeze but the ISCO lens only 1,5x which gives you another format and if projected on a 21:9 Beamer.....the format will not fit)

- Handling (You have to pull focus on the anamorphic lens AND again on the camera lens. The handling and ergonomics is really crap. I did read a dozen articels of young filmermakers from 1990-1994 - they all said that the handling is bad....and caused a lot of out of focus scenes. The anamorphic lens + camea lens + camera will be heavy in terms of weight.

- Loss of light (Every lens decreases the amount of light and uncoated lenses even more - so you loose 2 or 4 F-stops which cause problems again with sharpness -> read the next contra point "DOF".

- DOF Depth of Field (anamorphic lenses have a very small DoF means that the area of sharpness is much smaller than standard 35mm lenses. If your actors moves just a half of an inch...you might get "out-of-focus". Focus-pulling is very diffiult and pain in the ass. You need a lot of light to achieve usable DOF compared to normal lenses.

- cheap anamorphic lenses are not real cinemascope ( you will never get cinema look because the decreased image quality will look cheapy. You can avoid this by filming with High ISO Black-White emulsions and use the grainy Look.

- Change of focal lenght (If you use a 35mm Adapter like ISCO or Cinema 35mm projection lenses - you only use a small area of the lens. So.....you work only in TELE mode and you will not get Wide-Angle with anamorphic lenses. Your working area will be 60-120mm (in 35mm) - I forget the 16mm Range. AGAIN: You will not get Wideangle and maybe not even standard 50mm.

The ISCO adapter delivers little better quality as the projections anamorphic lenses but it has the wrong squeezing factor.

They are rear elements but these are made for 35mm cine lenses and can not mount easily - must be done by a service center for cine lenses. I got one Techniscope rear element in the early 90s. The russians had several such lenses from the 1970s but they are very big......not very good in quality compared to western ones. I never saw 16mm rear anamorphic elements because in 16mm anamorphic were only used for projection and not filming. To adapt 35mm Cine anamoprhic lenses to 16mm is also bad choice...because of size and focal lenght - means a 75mm lens transforms to 120mm (on a 16mm frame). The biggest problem is that I never saw a PL mount to C-mount/M42 mount adapter since 1986 (and this was a DIY-selfmade).

My advice:

Film with the better standard lenses! Set light and achieve sharp and good exposured pictures. Focus on your Story, actors, editing, use sound & music well and framing. Look at "Clerks", "El mariachi", "Blair Withc project" and other student grade movies.........the story, actors and other filmmaking elements are more essential than anamorphic.

Today HDV Cams are cheap (like HV30 for consumer or semi-pro models with HDV Pro Cameras) and some DSLR Cameras as the Canon 5dMk2 or D900 offers HD video recording abilities. Think about your alternatives to get your project done.

Hope my tips are useful.

cheers

Ayk
_________________
Rollei, Zeiss, and Hexanon Freak!

[Shingoshi]

I was looking for information on the Moller Anamorphot Bolex 16/32/1.5x 16mm Lens which led me here. I'm hoping to get mine in the M39 Leica thread. I want to use it on my C-Mount video camera which has an M39 adapter.

Thanks for the information given here.
Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

[kds315*]

Hoping? I would simply ask the seller if it has M39 thread mount. If he uses a calipher, it should be faily simple to give you this info.

But btw. is there no something missing? That Moeller Adapter is a simple anamorphic (afocal) Adaptor, it is NOT a lens, so you would need that adaptor plus a suitable M39 lens to get this working (or do you have a suitable lens already?).
_________________
Klaus

http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV diary


Currently most FAV lens(es):
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Voigtländer (Cosina) Apo-Makro-Lanthar f2.5 125mm SL

Want to travel to Europe and see spots hardly anyone has seen, read this:
http://www.examiner.com/x-6661-Germany-Travel-Examiner

[Shingoshi]