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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject: Aldis Uno Anastigmat 4.5/4" |
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vilva wrote:
Last night I extracted the lens from the Ensign Carbine and fixed it to an M42 extension ring so I could mount it on the bellows. To-day was cold, a few degrees below zero Centigrade, and rather windy, and the Sun sets very early, at about twenty minutes past three PM. It had been cloudy, but just before sunset the sky cleared, somewhat, so I had a few rather uncomfortable minutes to take some shots, the 350D at ISO 400 and rather slow speeds given the focal length of the lens and the circumstances - still I had to push the photos one stop so they are a little bit noisy.
Here are the decent shots downsampled and unsharpened plus links to two full-scale, also unsharpened photos. The target is the Cathedral, as usua.
Full-size: http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_uno_files/u8353.jpg
Full-size: http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_uno_files/u8358.jpg
Judging on the basis of these photos (ignoring the noise, which is no fault of the lens), the Uno seems to be a quite decent lens with a rather good contrast due to the minimal number of air/glass surfaces. Now I'm impatiently waiting for more light and perhaps slightly more comfortable circumstances for more test shots.
Veijo
PS. it is a pity the camera was almost certainly beyond repair. When I examined it more closely, I found out that it has a rather clever pressure plate system: the cover of the red frame counter window at the back is connected to the pressure plate so that when the window is uncovered, the pressure plate is released, and when the window is covered, full pressure is applied to keep the film firmly in place. |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Quote: |
Judging on the basis of these photos (ignoring the noise, which is no fault of the lens), the Uno seems to be a quite decent lens with a rather good contrast due to the minimal number of air/glass surfaces. Now I'm impatiently waiting for more light and perhaps slightly more comfortable circumstances for more test shots. |
Veijo, really you think these pictures show a good contrast? The tonal range seems quite compressed to me. Maybe it's the time of the day and the available light.
What impresses me, instead, is the resolvance. I can read a lot of detail from these emages, judging on the full size samples you provide. So much detail, it does not have much, or at all, to envy from expensive contemporary lenses. I even think that with some local contrast enhancement, the detail would "pop-out" even more. Perhaps even a simple adjustment of black and white points would be enough to make of these pictures, images that could be taken (with regards to detail rendition) with some expensive lenses of today.
- _________________ Orio, Administrator
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NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Veijo, really you think these pictures show a good contrast? The tonal range seems quite compressed to me. Maybe it's the time of the day and the available light. |
The culprit is the available light with a very low contrast. The whites weren't really whites, and there are no blacks to speak of. The light was very diffuse, and there were no very deep shadows. I was actually astonished when I saw the photos. There isn't very much difference in the tonal range of these photos and some taken under almost but not quite as bad circumstances with e.g. the 2.8/60 Macro-Elmarit, and even with the noise, the micro-contrast is pretty good, see e.g. the columns in the second full-size photo. With four air/glass surfaces, the attenuation of an uncoated lens system might be about half a stop, which is just discernible. The glass of the lenses is also very clear, and there are no scratches or dust.
Quote: |
What impresses me, instead, is the resolvance. I can read a lot of detail from these emages, judging on the full size samples you provide. So much detail, it does not have much, or at all, to envy from expensive contemporary lenses. I even think that with some local contrast enhancement, the detail would "pop-out" even more. Perhaps even a simple adjustment of black and white points would be enough to make of these pictures, images that could be taken (with regards to detail rendition) with some expensive lenses of today. |
Well, adjusting the balck and white points would certainly enhance the photos, but then they wouldn't be anything like the reality was, the contrast was so low that I had trouble focusing even though this lens is quite easy to focus at f/4.5. I was afraid that all the photos would be out of focus, but only one photo of twelve was clearly misfocused.
There certainly is enough resolution even for the 350D. The text on the book in the first full-size photo is about as sharp as I've ever seen. The photo was taken at 1/250s with hands shaking of cold, and still it doesn't much differ at this detail from a photo taken with the 2.5/105 Nikkor at 1/1250s, see http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_n105_files/n105_7455.jpg , which has a better contrast, of course, being taken in full sunshine.
I have put local contrast enhanced versions of the Uno full-size photos at
http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_uno_files/u8353_lce.jpg and http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/eos350d_uno_files/u8358_lce.jpg
Veijo |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I am looking forward to seeing what this lens can do in a good light condition. I am convinced it will be a very positive surprise.
Thanks for sharing these images. I learned a lot from your series with ancient lenses.
Does this lens show any colour aberration of purple fringing (what is the correct definition, by the way?) I don't seem to see any. if so, then the performance would be absolutely impressive! _________________ Orio, Administrator
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NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Does this lens show any colour aberration of purple fringing (what is the correct definition, by the way?) I don't seem to see any. if so, then the performance would be absolutely impressive! |
There are very few high contrast edges in these photos so it is hard to tell for sure. I examined all the photos I had taken, and looking very closely and critically I could find a hint here and there, however, nothing that would be visible on a print, I think. Tentatively I'd say that this lens is in the same category as the APO-Lanthar and the Cooke triplets, i.e. perfect enough for all practical purposes. The contrast ought to be slightly better than that of the Cookes, which have two air/glass surfaces more, and consequently all the colour aberrations might be slightly more clearly visible - when not masked by sensor noise.
Veijo |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
vilva wrote: |
There are very few high contrast edges in these photos so it is hard to tell for sure. I examined all the photos I had taken, and looking very closely and critically I could find a hint here and there, however, nothing that would be visible on a print, I think. Tentatively I'd say that this lens is in the same category as the APO-Lanthar and the Cooke triplets, i.e. perfect enough for all practical purposes. The contrast ought to be slightly better than that of the Cookes, which have two air/glass surfaces more, and consequently all the colour aberrations might be slightly more clearly visible - when not masked by sensor noise.
Veijo |
I am really impressed by this performance, because some of the most expensive lenses that I have - namely Leica and Contax- sometimes show CA in surely higher amount than this.
Veijo I am a bit confused about the "purple fringing" definition, is it the same as colour aberration, or a different thing?
- _________________ Orio, Administrator
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NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
Orio wrote: |
I am really impressed by this performance, because some of the most expensive lenses that I have - namely Leica and Contax- sometimes show CA in surely higher amount than this.
Veijo I am a bit confused about the "purple fringing" definition, is it the same as colour aberration, or a different thing?
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Purple fringing can be caused by certain types of chromatic aberration but in digital photography also by the sensor or sensor-lens interaction, especially with very high contrast lenses under high contrast conditions, which is one explanation for the better behaviour of the older lenses. Lens design is a science but also an art and a balancing act. Probably a lens cannot be perfect in all respects, and the art is in making the correct compromises. Perhaps in the olden times the limited accuracy of the available methods took care of the compromises, at least to an extent. Anyway, the more I use the old lenses, the safer I feel with them. Using them means accepting certain limitations, a rather limited range of focal lengths, limited speed, lower contrast, but on the other hand, all tools have limitations, TINSTAAFL (There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.)
Veijo
See http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Optical/chromatic_aberration_01.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Quote: |
Anyway, the more I use the old lenses, the safer I feel with them. Using them means accepting certain limitations, a rather limited range of focal lengths, limited speed, lower contrast, but on the other hand, all tools have limitations |
And the more you show us your results, the more you are convincing me of what you say!
If only I wasn't such a total dumb at handiwork.
Thanks for the links, they were very informative - I seem to undestand a little discrepancy on the concept of purple fringing from dpreview to Wikipedia - as the former seems to identify it precisely with the microlenses, while the latter seems to describe the purple fringing more as one of several possible visible actualizations of chromatic aberration, rather than a specific type of chromatic aberration per se. _________________ Orio, Administrator
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NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Even after having read your explanations, I'd like to state my first impression:
I also would have said, low in contrast but high in resolution and a very fine, almost "noble" detail rendering.
Looking forward to seeing some results in good conditions. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
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Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 8551 Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
Amazing what results you are getting from these ancient lenses. I for one would never have given any of them a second thought. Apart from the light effects, I am not convinced about any serious sharpness in these samples, but wait for the good light versions
patrickh _________________ DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Even after having read your explanations, I'd like to state my first impression:
I also would have said, low in contrast |
I'd never insist that an old uncoated lens has anything like the contrast of an MC lens, that would be absurd. Probably the contrast bottoms at something like eight stops, but that is enough for most practical purposes, especially if one makes prints - the dynamic range of a print is less than seven stops, often hardly more than six stops. However, an original eight stops is plenty given the possibilities of adjusting the contrast during PP, e.g. Ansel Adams did most of his work within this limited contrast space.
EDIT: even five stops on paper is near the upper end of the scale as it means something like 97% reflectivity at the white end and 96% absorbance at the black end. The white end is easier to slightly improve, but getting higher absorbance is difficult. Anyway, I'd say that a six stop dynamic range print is already more or less impossible.
Quote: |
high in resolution and a very fine, almost "noble" detail rendering. |
Here is a crop after some noise reduction and very slight sharpening:
Then two bookshelf crops at f/4.5, both unsharpened and without any lens specific contrast adjustment, the first one is an upper left corner crop with low and medium contrast detail. The fall-off at the left is due to the light coming from the right and gives an idea of the low contrast behaviour of the lens.
The second crop is from near the center of a frame. The ruler was tilted to afford some leeway in focusing and also to minimize contrast lowering reflections. On a 20 cm x 30 cm print, the dimensions of this crop would be 42 mm x 42 mm, a 14x magnification relative to the original size of 3 mm x 3 mm on the sensor; on screen the magnification is much higher.
Veijo |
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
Here is the Uno mounted on my 350D, at about infinity focus:
I had to use a reversal ring to mount it on the bellows as I didn't have a short enough extension ring available at the moment - a 7 mm ring would have been about optimal.
Veijo |
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