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Advice needed on mirrorless for MF lenses
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:58 am    Post subject: Advice needed on mirrorless for MF lenses Reply with quote

Hi all,

I'm doing a bit of a restructuring of my kit and what I'm figuring is I may well dispose of one of my DSLR lenses, namely my wide angle as I've got the range in MF lenses and am about to invest in a quality wide angle lens in a similar vein..

However, the capital I'll release from the DSLR lense will allow me to invest in a mirrorless; if the price is right.

Can anyone make any recommendations with a maximum price of around £500? I don't mind second hand/refurb/last season and I can cope with 16-20MP.

Previous experience has included a lot of Canon DSLR experience and a lot of use of the Fuji X100t; so I'm minded to stick to either brand ideally..


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canon and Fuji both have APSC mirrorless systems.

Fuji has a much nicer range of native lenses too, if this is important to you.

A used X-T1 falls well within your budget, and served me well during the past 2 years.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjak wrote:
Canon and Fuji both have APSC mirrorless systems.

Fuji has a much nicer range of native lenses too, if this is important to you.

A used X-T1 falls well within your budget, and served me well during the past 2 years.


Like 1


What's the high ISO like on them? I try to limit it to 800-1600 (3200 at a push) and ideally this is more to get something portable for street style stuff; what I'd use my x100t for normally. Figure to stick a small 28 or 35 on it ( presuming it's 1.6x crop factor)..


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot to be said for going full frame for vintage lens use. You could pick up a sony for not much more than your budget I think if you bide your time and take your chances with the auctions.
I am very satisfied with my samsung NX20 - for the low price I paid (<150£)! It's a good all rounder IMO, spec is good, EVF + magnification is good, fully articulated lcd is good, I have to use adobe dng converter before import into LR3 not so good, already getting noisy at 800asa not so good, buffer delays not so good, battery life not so good. Cheap adapters available for all the common legacy mounts, no firmware issues using legacy lenses, mount and go.
You could pick up a NX5 or NX10 for less than a hundred based on a quick browse.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sony A6000, excellent camera and good ones are for sale in your price range.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF sony a7 24 MP might be had in that price range if you shop carefully..


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamaeolus wrote:
FF sony a7 24 MP might be had in that price range if you shop carefully..


Yes, definitely. I have a Sony A7 and the original Sony Vertical Grip VGC1EN to sell, both together for CHF 500.-- (about £390.--).
Contact me via PM if interested.

Stephan


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gott23 wrote:

What's the high ISO like on them? I try to limit it to 800-1600 (3200 at a push) and ideally this is more to get something portable for street style stuff; what I'd use my x100t for normally. Figure to stick a small 28 or 35 on it ( presuming it's 1.6x crop factor)..
The X-T1 has the same sensor as the X100T, so you should feel right at home.

For club&pub-stuff I have no issues with ISO 6400 (but I'll convert to B&W usually)

The X-T1 has a pretty large EVF compared to most other cams in the sub-500-bracket.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

99% of MF lenses were designed to cover the 35mm format, also called "full-frame" nowadays. By using a crop sensor you will be throwing away a significant portion of the image produced by these lenses. I think you should buy an FF camera, especially since the price has dropped a lot in recent years.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the input! Well, in the end I've ended up opting for the A6000 as I think it fits the bill for street style stuff amazingly well and its just about the same size of the x100t even with the kit lens on it; which I decided to get as I figured I can leave with that on it when I want a P&S camera more than anything..

Despite having big hands, it actually felt quite solid in my hand with enough weight to it. Yet it is diminutive enough to throw in a non-camera bag.

I think full-frame mirrorless might be a bit too big for my needs; and also I shoot full-frame with my DSLR so if I want to do something serious, I do have that tool. Plus using the A6000 for a bit will give my main camera a bit of a rest.

One advantage though is that with the 1.6x crop it'll boost a 50mm to around 85ish, which is a nice reach for street stuff. I've got a Flektogon 20mm on order as well, so that'll be pretty close to 35mm.

Another selling point was the drive rate of the Sony, at 11fps with quite a large buffer it seems, so pleased with that.. Now just to figure out what the hell the rest of the menu options do! (And my M42 adapter arrives via Amazon Prime tomorrow.. Very Happy )


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gott23 wrote:


Another selling point was the drive rate of the Sony, at 11fps with quite a large buffer it seems, so pleased with that.. Now just to figure out what the hell the rest of the menu options do! (And my M42 adapter arrives via Amazon Prime tomorrow.. Very Happy )


the three most important options for shooting manual on an A6000:
https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-set-Sony-A6000-for-old-manual-lens


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

benadamx wrote:
Gott23 wrote:


Another selling point was the drive rate of the Sony, at 11fps with quite a large buffer it seems, so pleased with that.. Now just to figure out what the hell the rest of the menu options do! (And my M42 adapter arrives via Amazon Prime tomorrow.. Very Happy )


the three most important options for shooting manual on an A6000:
https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-set-Sony-A6000-for-old-manual-lens


Sweet! I'd figured out the release w/o lens already... Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2 most favored lenses on my NEX-7 was my OM 21/3.5 and my Leica M 28 Elmarit.
Followed closely by my Canon FD SSC 24/2.8, 50/1.4, 85/1.8

The OM 21 was my go-to lens for night shooting, the OM 50/1.4 was also nice for night shooting, coma was not a problem.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
My 2 most favored lenses on my NEX-7 was my OM 21/3.5 and my Leica M 28 Elmarit.
Followed closely by my Canon FD SSC 24/2.8, 50/1.4, 85/1.8


canon 85/1.8 SSC is low-key the best MF lens out of my current collection, and nobody talks about it.. produces amazing results on the A6000


PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: post festum Reply with quote

Anyone pondering mirrorless should consider a camera with stabilization on the sensor rather than depending on stabilized lenses that need special and expensive adapters.

Camera body stabilization, plus optics that can be found at reasonable cost and connected with cheap adapters, will ensure that portrait, landscape, macro-lenses, ...whatever you fancy, will be easier to use even if the light is dim.

p.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: post festum Reply with quote

paulhofseth wrote:
Anyone pondering mirrorless should consider a camera with stabilization on the sensor rather than depending on stabilized lenses that need special and expensive adapters.

Camera body stabilization, plus optics that can be found at reasonable cost and connected with cheap adapters, will ensure that portrait, landscape, macro-lenses, ...whatever you fancy, will be easier to use even if the light is dim.

p.

I don't depend on stabilization, I just do what photographers did for years prior to stabilization... A faster shutter speed, better technique, a tripod.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: post festum Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:



I don't depend on stabilization, I just do what photographers did for years prior to stabilization... A faster shutter speed, better technique, a tripod.


This tbh...

That's one of the reasons I'm able to invest in a mirrorless this, I had figured that the Canon 16-24L f/4 IS I have is really not getting much use. The barrelling at 16mm is not an effect I'm eager to use in general and if I dispose of it I've got enough to cover the cost of the Sony, and put a bit towards a 20mm f/4 Flektogon ive got arriving Monday. A lens like that I'm more than likely to shoot on the full-frame and with a tripod etc to get the most out of it.

Another factor to perhaps consider is that it's a lot easier to "push/pull" digitally, so shooting a couple of stops out is perfectly feasible.

I was grounded by a headache yesterday but I'll get some shots put through the A6000 today. The only issue I've come across so far is that the zoom view cuts out very quickly, if not almost instantaneously, with an MF lens fitted to it. I'm using a K&F Concept adapter, and its happening with every lens I've put on it so far. Shoot without lens is set, I' ve got peaking on - it does help, and I'd already figured to move the zoom button to c1. Despite this, it still cuts out... anyone else come across similar?


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: post festum Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
I don't depend on stabilization, I just do what photographers did for years prior to stabilization... A faster shutter speed, better technique, a tripod.


I do it likewise. IBIS is always like a lottery. If you really want to have sharp pictures shooting without IBIS is IMHO the better option.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I took it out for a little walk with a late version CZJ Tessar 50mm/f2.8 that I'd placed in the repair pile as I thought the aperture was screwed..turns out it likes to be treated rough; the optics and focus are mint though...

Initial impressions are good; though results were tempered by aperture on Tessar being temperamental - it got left wide open inadvertently a lot..

unprocessed:



Provia 100F emulator applied:



These are unprocessed other than half a stop of exposure, and desaturated





all around f/11-5.6 ish - when lens not taking the hump...


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Tripod Reply with quote

Agree that shutterspeed, tripod,beanbag or just a solid grip is excellent when available, but for longer focal lengths stabilization is a distinct advantage. If it lives inside the camera one is not limited to native lenses.

But of course, neither in-lens, in camera or a tripod can make your motive stand still and substitute for shutter speed and f-number.

p.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: post festum Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
I don't depend on stabilization, I just do what photographers did for years prior to stabilization... A faster shutter speed, better technique, a tripod.


tb_a wrote:
I do it likewise. IBIS is always like a lottery. If you really want to have sharp pictures shooting without IBIS is IMHO the better option.


IBIS can be useful for tele-stuff, but it's certainly not the be-all-end-all solution. This being said, it's much easier to shoot 200mm on my 2006 Pentaxes than on my 2015 Fuji.

However, I usually shoot near 50mm (ff eq) so subject motion is more of a concern (unless I intend to have it in the pic)

So overall, for me, in-camera or in-lens stabilization is not that important. I know that for many others, it is. Since the option is there, it is worth taking it into consideration.

PS - Thomas, I sent you a PM Wink


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: post festum Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
I don't depend on stabilization....


I sometimes feel that the features like IBIS are something that people are latching on to bash this or that brand. FWIW, I have IBIS on my Oly and I kind of need it there for manual lenses because it does not have focus peaking, and I need a stable image on the screen. On my Canon, although I have 5 stabilized lenses, IS is off most of the time.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought image stabilisation was 'breath in and hold'. Have things moved on a bit? God, I need to catch up Wink


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: post festum Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:

I sometimes feel that the features like IBIS are something that people are latching on to bash this or that brand. FWIW, I have IBIS on my Oly and I kind of need it there for manual lenses because it does not have focus peaking, and I need a stable image on the screen. On my Canon, although I have 5 stabilized lenses, IS is off most of the time.


And the funny thing is, this IBIS-bashing is something quite recent, although the feature has been around for how long now? 15 years or so?


PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: post festum Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:

I sometimes feel that the features like IBIS are something that people are latching on to bash this or that brand. FWIW, I have IBIS on my Oly and I kind of need it there for manual lenses because it does not have focus peaking, and I need a stable image on the screen. On my Canon, although I have 5 stabilized lenses, IS is off most of the time.


Sjak wrote:
And the funny thing is, this IBIS-bashing is something quite recent, although the feature has been around for how long now? 15 years or so?


Well, I wouldn't call it bashing from my side. More than 50% of my cameras are featuring IBIS and I've got some stabilized lenses as well.
It's simply out of my experience that slow shutter speeds are not always successful. In that respect, if you want to make sure that the image is sharp the more reliable option is a tripod.
However, sometimes it can be nice as well if no tripod is on hand. Wink