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Adapter on a Focal Reducer?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:47 pm    Post subject: Adapter on a Focal Reducer? Reply with quote
Hi there,

Do you think using an EOS or NIKON adapter on a Focal Reducer (EOS/Nikon to E-Mount) would work?
If the final image might not be 100% sharp across the whole area, as long as is OK in the center, I'm fine with that.

I'm thinking to buy one Focal Reducer and use my old EOS adapters to Nikon/OM/M42 and thus mount different mounts to the Focal Reducer, without buying different Focal Reducer adapters per each mount type.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sure, if the results don't matter much, go ahead Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess the question is how much degradation or loss of quality is going to happen.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cgustav wrote:
I guess the question is how much degradation or loss of quality is going to happen.

The results is not depending on whether it using double adapter or not. it's matter of if it fits the lens reducer or not. I mean optical combination. I used PK-EOS+Lens turbo EOS-NEX, and using PK-NEX..the results is same.
Another issue is, the combo isn't fit right, like my exakta-eos won't fit EOS-NEX


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
IAZA wrote:
cgustav wrote:
I guess the question is how much degradation or loss of quality is going to happen.

The results is not depending on whether it using double adapter or not. it's matter of if it fits the lens reducer or not. I mean optical combination. I used PK-EOS+Lens turbo EOS-NEX, and using PK-NEX..the results is same.
Another issue is, the combo isn't fit right, like my exakta-eos won't fit EOS-NEX


IAZA,

Do you mean I can't know for sure if it's going to work or not unless I try it?
Or based on lenses and adapter combination I can theoretically know?


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cgustav wrote:
IAZA wrote:
cgustav wrote:
I guess the question is how much degradation or loss of quality is going to happen.

The results is not depending on whether it using double adapter or not. it's matter of if it fits the lens reducer or not. I mean optical combination. I used PK-EOS+Lens turbo EOS-NEX, and using PK-NEX..the results is same.
Another issue is, the combo isn't fit right, like my exakta-eos won't fit EOS-NEX


IAZA,

Do you mean I can't know for sure if it's going to work or not unless I try it?

Yes. but most of EOS adapters fit lens turbo. I have PK, Nikon, OM, Rollei, M42, Contax/yashica to EOS adapter fit on it. Only Exakta-EOS hard to fit. because it pushes the pin on lens, make it very stiff

my experience with lens turbo here http://ihyaahsani.blogspot.co.id/2014/02/zongyi-lens-turbo-eos-nex-adapter.html


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
IAZA wrote:
Yes. but most of EOS adapters fit lens turbo. I have PK, Nikon, OM, Rollei, M42, Contax/yashica to EOS adapter fit on it. Only Exakta-EOS hard to fit. because it pushes the pin on lens, make it very stiff my experience with lens turbo here http://ihyaahsani.blogspot.co.id/2014/02/zongyi-lens-turbo-eos-nex-adapter.html


Just read your post, great!
What I wanted to hear, now I'm more confident to give this a try.

Thank you IAZA.

Best


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I regularly use M42, PK & OM adapters on my EOS reducer. No issues with any of them.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No problem at all. I have Lens Turbo II EOS to FX (Fuji mount) and I'm using on everyday basis cheap adapters from OM/M42/PK/F to EOS on Lens Turbo without problem.
I don't know if it's only me, but I'm always buying cheapest adapters possible and they always work great, had no problems with infinity or quality of adapters.

One word of caution is that my Lens Turbo II EOS-FX was a bit too short, so all my lenses were focusing way past infinity. Solution was to put shims (0.6mm if I remember correctly) between the main body of the Lens Turbo and EOS mount. Now everything works perfect, I've tried it with all lenses I have and infinity is reached at infinity stop as it should be with all my adapters. If you prefer to have a bit of room for infinity you could put 0.55mm or 0.50mm shims instead of 0.60.
I've used metal shims that I found online for shimming industrial machines. No matter for what they were designed as they were in perfect size - 55mm of inner diameter and 65mm of outer diameter and stepped by 0.20mm in thickness.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhantomLord wrote:
No problem at all. I have Lens Turbo II EOS to FX (Fuji mount) and I'm using on everyday basis cheap adapters from OM/M42/PK/F to EOS on Lens Turbo without problem.
I don't know if it's only me, but I'm always buying cheapest adapters possible and they always work great, had no problems with infinity or quality of adapters.

One word of caution is that my Lens Turbo II EOS-FX was a bit too short, so all my lenses were focusing way past infinity. Solution was to put shims (0.6mm if I remember correctly) between the main body of the Lens Turbo and EOS mount. Now everything works perfect, I've tried it with all lenses I have and infinity is reached at infinity stop as it should be with all my adapters. If you prefer to have a bit of room for infinity you could put 0.55mm or 0.50mm shims instead of 0.60.
I've used metal shims that I found online for shimming industrial machines. No matter for what they were designed as they were in perfect size - 55mm of inner diameter and 65mm of outer diameter and stepped by 0.20mm in thickness.


Thanks for the heads up!

I'll look for a focal reducer, I was already thinking to buy a Roxsen. If the past infinity issue happens I'll try with the shims then.

Btw, if you are using your Lens Turbo on a daily basis that means you're definitely enjoying it!

I started thinking about the focal reducer solution because I was looking for a good old wide angle, mostly 17mm. Since I already have two good 24mm lenses, a Nikon and an OM Zuiko, with the focal reducer I should gain some extra info, widening the lens a little further and also, if I'm not mistaken, gaining extra light.
For my needs the extra light is not a must but is welcome, the wider angle, on the other hand, would be a great plus!


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hang on a minute, I may be wrong and please correct me if I am, but I assume you are planning on using a focal reducer on your Sony A6000. If so, your 24mm lens without the reducer will act like a 36mm lens on full frame and with the reducer will be approximately 26mm and not the 17mm or thereabouts you are looking for.
For the same money or a little more, you could buy a good quality mf 17mm lens e.g. Tokina RMC 3.5/17.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DigiChromeEd wrote:
Hang on a minute, I may be wrong and please correct me if I am, but I assume you are planning on using a focal reducer on your Sony A6000. If so, your 24mm lens without the reducer will act like a 36mm lens on full frame and with the reducer will be approximately 26mm and not the 17mm or thereabouts you are looking for.
For the same money or a little more, you could buy a good quality mf 17mm lens e.g. Tokina RMC 3.5/17.


I must admit I need to educate myself a little more on this topic, but from what you're saying I think we're on the same page.
Basically, if the 24mm on the A6000 it's going to look as a 24-ish, or 26 like you said, I'm still good.
In fact, the reason I was after the 17 is to get closer to the 24, so it seems the focal reducer should get me there (or pretty close).

All I learnt so far about focal reducer is that they should give me more light (perhaps a stop more?) and help me render the focal length *almost* as if it was on a FF.
There's also something about misalignment of the lens with the reducer and the camera to take into account, which will return a less sharp image along the edges.
This with my basic understanding of the topic, I might be wrong though :/


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've said I'm willing to sacrifice some sharpness, as long as the center is good, but this sample is not what I was expecting:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/willikampmann/9810315666/in/set-72157633764023021

And this is the Flickr thread:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/2250945@N22/discuss/72157635345018216/

Hopefully, it's only because of the first Lens Turbo series.
In the sample above the author shows how soften it gets when it's wide open.

If it is that soft, I must re-consider...


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello Gustav

Some time ago I've put a set of photos to show how my lens turbo II works with a few 50mm lens I have.

Take a look and judge by yourself. Read the description below the photos as I've noted aperture and lens used.
https://flic.kr/s/aHskwhuh7q
https://flic.kr/s/aHskzyWuXb
Those are straight JPGs out of Fuji X-E1 in full resolution, I've put them on this new Flickr account to not make a mess on my normal one.

As for sharpness lost in Lens Turbo II I could said something as I have it for some time now and have tested all my lenses with it.
Some lenses do work better with LT II, some not. The lenses that works brilliantly are Tamron SP 01A 35-80/2.8-3.8 and Vivitar Series 1 24-48/3.8. I haven't notice weak corners with those lenses, they're sharp and simply great for my taste.

Of course I'm sure if you compare images from Fuji X-E1 + LT II with full frame sensor camera - differences will be seen, but there's heck of a money difference as well so it's not fair comparison. (Obviously I would buy full frame camera if I could have afford one instead of buying LTII Wink ).
LT II works very well with other zooms I have: Vivitar Series 1 28-90, Tamron SP 23A 60-300, Tamron SP 26A 35-210, Kiron 70-150, Vivitar Series 1 70-210 (Tokina ver) as well as with primes: Zuiko 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 50/1.4 and 50/1.8; Pentax-M 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 50/1.7; Helios 44M-4,44-2, Tamron 03B 135/2.5.
With this LT II I haven't noticed any terrible sharpness loss in corners with neither primes or zooms.

One word of caution is that I found it shows noticeable loss in sharpness with 50mm lenses at really open apertures. I did above test and set of pictures to find out which 50mm lens work best with it at open apertures and to show interested people how it behaves.

It's up to you to judge if the result is ok for you or not. The photo you've linked was shot with f/1.2 lens which without LT is not expected to be tack sharp and LT only made things worst. Supposedly LTII is a lot better in corners and a just better in center than first version.
Also I think that Zhongyi/Mitakon Lens Turbo II is the cheapest thing you should actually buy, because even cheaper ones like Roxsen seem to be a lot worse quality wise.

Anyway to end this a bit longish post I only add that I haven't take off LTII from my Fuji X-E1 since I bought it Smile, which in my opinion shows how I like it and that it behaves properly.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gustav, I agree with everything Mateusz has said as my results match his conclusions with the lenses he and I have in common. My camera is a Sony A6000, the same as you, so I would recommend the Lens Turbo II.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:05 pm    Post subject: Focal reducers work well on MFT Reply with quote
#1


#2


The enclosed snaps show an MFT frame and a part of the same frame. De-mosaicked by the Olympus utility which comes with the Pen F. No in-camera sharpening, no curves, no post processing beyond resizing.

The picture was taken with a manual 80-200 f-4 zoom, probably at its widest setting stopped down to 5,6 to increase depth of field. The effective field of view would correspond to a 105mm used on a full frame camera.

No edge unsharpness with reasonably flat field optics. No systematic assessment done, but I have used it on several different lenses. I just happened to have this picture handy today. I regard the use of this Metabones device as perfectly good enough.

Advantages of adding to your set of existing optics : a bit "shorter" and a bit "faster" - makes handheld exposures easier.

p.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhantomLord wrote:
Hello Gustav

Some time ago I've put a set of photos to show how my lens turbo II works with a few 50mm lens I have.

Take a look and judge by yourself. Read the description below the photos as I've noted aperture and lens used.
https://flic.kr/s/aHskwhuh7q
https://flic.kr/s/aHskzyWuXb
Those are straight JPGs out of Fuji X-E1 in full resolution, I've put them on this new Flickr account to not make a mess on my normal one.

As for sharpness lost in Lens Turbo II I could said something as I have it for some time now and have tested all my lenses with it.
Some lenses do work better with LT II, some not. The lenses that works brilliantly are Tamron SP 01A 35-80/2.8-3.8 and Vivitar Series 1 24-48/3.8. I haven't notice weak corners with those lenses, they're sharp and simply great for my taste.
[...]


Mateusz,

Thank you for your thorough reply and for the sample pics!
(Sorry for late reply, I was travelling).

From your experience and samples, I feel confident moving with the LT II rather than Roxsen.
I too use Olympus lenses, seeing that you're happy with the combo it's encouraging.

Thanks for the heads up about the 50.

One thing I checked right away is a PEN to EOS adapter, but then I realized that such solution probably doesn't exist.
Too bad, it would have been great to test my PEN 38 with the LT II Smile

Anyway, I just ordered it on Amazon, can't wait to get it in the mailbox!

Thanks!

Egar, glad to hear another A6000 shooter confirming LT II is a good piece of gear.

Paul, thanks for your images too!
A bit shorter and a bit faster sounds nice, especially for lowlight situations Like 1 small


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
the most often issue with this adapter, is blue dot in center with wide lens (28mm and below ..pentacon 30mm doesnt has this issue.) when shoot against bright sun light. But it doesnt really matter to me, just change direction or use hood/cover


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
IAZA wrote:
the most often issue with this adapter, is blue dot in center with wide lens (28mm and below ..pentacon 30mm doesnt has this issue.) when shoot against bright sun light. But it doesnt really matter to me, just change direction or use hood/cover


That was the case with Lens Turbo first edition. I was talking about Lens Turbo II edition which completely repaired the problem, well at least I haven't noticed any blue dot and only slightly more flaring than lenses alone do.
Also using lens hood when pointing lens at the sun isn't going to help Wink, but as I said - up to 24mm I had no problem with blue dot and unfortunately I don't have wider lenses.

Glad to be helpfull Gustav and I hope you'll be happy about your purchase. One thing came to my mind now. When I've received my LTII it produced so-so images and I felt pretty fooled, but it turned out that simply last group of lenses became loose and needed tightening up - simple clockwise turn of the lens group (it's the first lens from the sensor side). It gives some perspective on quality control of Zhongyi, but anyway it was a simple fix and after that it worked like a charm.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For your consideration hehe... A simple review I did back when I was still shooting with Fujifilm X-T1.

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1548012&highlight=lens+turbo


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhantomLord wrote:
[...]

Glad to be helpfull Gustav and I hope you'll be happy about your purchase. One thing came to my mind now. When I've received my LTII it produced so-so images and I felt pretty fooled, but it turned out that simply last group of lenses became loose and needed tightening up - simple clockwise turn of the lens group (it's the first lens from the sensor side). It gives some perspective on quality control of Zhongyi, but anyway it was a simple fix and after that it worked like a charm.


Great info, thanks for the tip!
I'll check the first results and if something feels off I'll follow your advice.
Thanks agadin Mateusz.

ahblack wrote:
For your consideration hehe... A simple review I did back when I was still shooting with Fujifilm X-T1.

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1548012&highlight=lens+turbo


Interesting, thanks for your review ahblack!
Is there a second part? Smile
edit: never mind, just found the full series:
http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1548012&s=ad8f0d43c2e217c7924e963bf2d86554
I've some nice reading to keep myself busy with waiting for my LTII Smile


PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
i was using a speed booster on sony nex 6.
speed booster was canon EF mount, and i use adapter on it (but without lense) for OM, m42, contax yashica, nikon. you can find for Leica to, not for Minolta

You will get a little bit more "play" ( the lens move a little) when focusing but can be solved easily by adding some tape to the ring to make it thicker


PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alright,

LT II has arrived today.
Here's some early thought after the first ride:

GOOD:
Colors seem punchier, which I like.
Images, once stopped down, looks sharper!
Extra light, and that's truly welcome.

NOT SO GOOD:
The lever on the side is rounded and pointy, which makes the process kind of unpleasant.

BAD:
The hot spot is happening. I thought it was due because of the lens pointing at the source light.
Well, in my case it happened when the sun was actually in the opposite direction!

Here are a couple of samples:
#1


#2



REALLY BAD (and this sucks):
So far I tested Nikons, M42 and OM.
Nikons, fine.
M42, snappy, super fine.
OM, nightmare. I've two EOS -> OM adapter, I tried both with the same result.
Doesn't matter where I start to screw the lens in, there's always one side that doesn't fit (as if something was blocking it, but nothing is blocking it).
So, I tried in order: OM 24 2.8, 28 3.5 and 50 1.4. After a lot of sweat, I've been able somehow to mount the 24, but not by screwing it, almost by slotting it in!
Basically, it seems I need to align the recessed parts, slot the lens in, and then do a little twist in order to lock the lens, which in the case of the OM it feels is never completely locked.

Now, which brand I want to use more? You guessed it, Olympus! Sad

I don't know yet what to do. I really wanted to love this adapter, I like the results and it feels like my camera has just got a new life.
I'm not sure about the hot spot, I'll do more test.
But the OM experience, that's definitely discouraging me.
I even thought to give this a try:
VILTROX EF-E Auto-focus AF Mount Adapter Focal Reducer Booster Adapter for Canon EF to Sony E-mount APS-C Camera NEX-7 NEX-6
https://goo.gl/RDKR4S

Is it better? Worse? Same?


PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've used an LT II with my Fuji X-T10 without any problems, using a Meyer Optik Somnium 85mm lens, and a MIR-24 m42 lens, both with no problem, so it seems to me odd that you're getting the hotspot. Maybe it is just defective?


PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's very unfortunate Gustav and I wonder if you really got LT II. Did you buy from reputable seller? Could you please post some photos of the LT as well as OM-EOS adapter as well?

I've plenty of different, cheap adapters from M42,PK,Nikon,OM to EOS and they all work as they should with my EOS camera as with my LTII.
If I remember correctly first OM-EOS adapter I bought from Big-Is ebay seller for a few $, the cheapest one without any chip and it works great ever since. Recently I purchased another OM-EOS from K&F and it works great as well. I had no problem in mounting my ~10 OM lenses. 28/3.5 and 50/1.4 are mounting without problem, cannot say anything 24 as I don't have this lens.

As for blue spot - it's seriously weird, as I was using LTII in bright, early summer sun on the beach without any problem at all. I just have checked those photos since I remember I had LTII on for the whole 5 day trip and I couldn't find any blue spot. No matter if the lens was pointed directly in the sun, with sun in frame or any other combination, there is no blue spot whatsoever. I was using Olympus Zuiko's 50/1.4, 35/2.8 and 28/3.5 if I remember correctly and they all worked fine.

I seriously wonder if you get true and honest LTII giving your problems under consideration.
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