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Throndor
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Ankara / TURKEY
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 Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| peterqd wrote: |
Is there a special reason you want to use Neopan 1600? These old cameras were never designed for such fast film, so 1/500 could be a problem, even if the film can be pushed (should that be pulled?) a couple of stops. Even in our usually dull daylight I think I'd prefer a more modern cam for the Neopan and use slower films in an older RF. The finer grain is worth it and better for scanning. |
This is the reason; http://www.flickr.com/photos/junku-newcleus/
_________________
Omer
Pentax K100D super
Pentax DA 18-55 AL
Pentax SMC-FA 50 f/1.4
Aus Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 (Zebra)
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5
Varexon 35/2.8
Helios 44-2 58/2
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 907
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Throndor wrote: | | peterqd wrote: |
Is there a special reason you want to use Neopan 1600? These old cameras were never designed for such fast film, so 1/500 could be a problem, even if the film can be pushed (should that be pulled?) a couple of stops. Even in our usually dull daylight I think I'd prefer a more modern cam for the Neopan and use slower films in an older RF. The finer grain is worth it and better for scanning. |
This is the reason; http://www.flickr.com/photos/junku-newcleus/ |
Very good reason!!
But did you think about that some of this pics could be taken with iso 400/800 film, leaf shutter RF and good pulse? Other alternative, may be a cloth shutter with 1,4-1,8 lens and 400 iso. Some use 800 film in 600 iso.
The range of possibility is wide. Your's the choice.
Rino.
_________________
M42: tak 3,5/28
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Fuji: , 1,8/55, 1,4 50, 2.2/55, 4/85
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9 |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 2658
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Ah, you're after the high contrast, grainy look. Good luck! 
I don't know enough yet to offer any help on that, but I'd guess the processing and the photographer's skill are just as important as the film. The Pan F I'm using at present is very high contrast too, and that's only 50ASA, but it's a lot less grainy, at least when processed normally.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G |
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Henry Fisher
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: A first rangefinder |
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Greetings, Forum.
I would have guessed that the Canonet QL 17 would have popped up in this thread by now. It is a great first RF, from all I have heard and read over the past few years.
The Canon/Canonet QL17 cameras also have a full complement of shutter speeds and aperture control. As others have mentioned, the otherwise wonderful Yashica Electro 35 rangefinders are more constrained with automation.
Upthread estudleon recommended the Yashica Lynx 5000. I was thinking the same thing as he was because of the complete manual control set.
Some rangefinders from the FSU, modeled on early Contax and Leica models tend to have smaller viewfinder eyepieces. This may be an issue with some folks who wear glasses, such as myself. I have to use an auxillary finder device with my Kiev 4a for this reason.
In any case, I think it is wise to "check out" rangefinder shooting before spending a lot on it. Personally, I prefer it. To me it is liberating, putting me more at one with the process and with the subject. The camera is small, stable, and quiet, not taken too seriously by the subject (person). Nevertheless, some folks just plain don't like shooting with an RF. Fair enough. Better that they had not wasted a lot of money to find out.
Happy day.
_________________
Henry Fisher
A certified dinosaur using F, F2, M3, K4a
"I think there's some sense of magic in the fact that what's out there can be caught in this little box." ~ John Loengard |
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Throndor
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Ankara / TURKEY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum Henry, nice to see you here.. 
and thanx for your comments... I wear glasses and this is the second time someone is mentioning the viewfinder issue.. That is a good reason to leave the Zorki out...
I was about to go with Yash. GSN but now i'm reading about the Yash. lynx 5K and the Konica s2...and now will about read about Canon QL 17..
i like readin about glasses and cams anyway.. what better thing to read.
_________________
Omer
Pentax K100D super
Pentax DA 18-55 AL
Pentax SMC-FA 50 f/1.4
Aus Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 (Zebra)
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5
Varexon 35/2.8
Helios 44-2 58/2
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 16065
Location: Budapest,Hungary
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Welcome Henry!
_________________
Olympus E-1,Bessa L,Bessa RF,Olympus OM2n,Nikon FA,Yashica Eletro 35 GN,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Zeiss Jena:Flektogon 2.8/20mm,4/25mm,2.4/35,2.8/65mm,4.5/4cm Tessar, 8/500mm Fernobjektiv
Pancolar 1.4/55mm,1.8/50mm,1.8/80mm,Tessar 2.8/50mm,Biotar 2/58mm,1.5/75mm,1.5/7,5cm
Carl Zeiss: Sonnar 2.8/135,2.8/180mm,Tessar 4/135mm
Nikon: 3.5/20mm,2.8/28mm,1.4/35mm,1.4/50mm,1.2/50mm,2/50mm,1.8/105mm,2.5/105mm,4/200mm macro,4.5/300mm
Pentax: Pentax 1.2/50mm,1.8/85mm,4/200mm
Helios: Helios-40 1.5/8,5cm,Helios-44-1 2/58mm,Helios-44-2 2/58mm
Olympus OM: 3.5/18mm,3.5/21mm,1.4/50mm,3.5/55mm macro,2.8/135mm,2/90mm macro,35-70mm,60-250mm
Meyer: 4.5/35mm Primagon,Primoplan 1.9/58mm,1.9/75mm,2.8/100mm,Orestegor 2.8/135mm,4.5/40 Helioplan
Leica: 4/100 Macro Elmar,2.8/90 Elmarit last version
Please visit my Ebay shop to support my reviews !
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 2658
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Throndor wrote: | | I wear glasses and this is the second time someone is mentioning the viewfinder issue.. That is a good reason to leave the Zorki out... |
I believe Henry was talking about his problems with the Kiev 4a and I feel I must jump here in to defend the Zorki - it has lots of quirks and faults, but the viewfinder is its best feature in my opinion. I need to wear glasses with all my cameras, apart from two - the 400D and the Zorki 4. Why? Because they both have dioptric adjustment. It's true that the visible area in the viewfinder is reduced when you're wearing glasses, but the Zorki viewfinder is way oversize to start with.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G |
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Throndor
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 156
Location: Ankara / TURKEY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| peterqd wrote: | | Throndor wrote: | | I wear glasses and this is the second time someone is mentioning the viewfinder issue.. That is a good reason to leave the Zorki out... |
I believe Henry was talking about his problems with the Kiev 4a and I feel I must jump here in to defend the Zorki - it has lots of quirks and faults, but the viewfinder is its best feature in my opinion. I need to wear glasses with all my cameras, apart from two - the 400D and the Zorki 4. Why? Because they both have dioptric adjustment. It's true that the visible area in the viewfinder is reduced when you're wearing glasses, but the Zorki viewfinder is way oversize to start with. |
This is another quote from another topic;
| rick_oleson wrote: | I like the early (up to about 1965) Zorki 4, mainly because I like having a full range of speeds.
The finder is OK but not great, I can't see the whole frame with my glasses on and the diopter correction goes so far that it's NEVER within the range of human eyesight when you pick up the camera. It's a reliable camera though and it doesn't leak light.
After about 1966, they lost the strap lugs, changed from leather grain to ugly ribbed vinyl covering, and worst, stopped engraving the shutter speeds and just printed them onto the chrome. If you want a bargain and an adventure, there are a lot of 4K's and late 4's with no shutter speed markings left on them, available pretty cheap. |
What i figured out from what i read is "yes there s a diopter correction option but you have to fiddle with it everytime you pick the cam up.."
and BTW I am very nearsighted. (-5.00 diopter) .. Does the correction go up to -5.00..
_________________
Omer
Pentax K100D super
Pentax DA 18-55 AL
Pentax SMC-FA 50 f/1.4
Aus Jena Pancolar 50/1.8 (Zebra)
Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 135/3.5
Varexon 35/2.8
Helios 44-2 58/2
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 2658
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I agree with Rick about needing to adjust the diopter, it seems to need slightly different settings depending on the distance of the subject. The VF is very large and there are no frame lines. With my glasses on I can just about see the full 50mm frame (thanks to Carsten for the accessory viewfinder he gave me! ). I can't see the whole 35mm frame, but that's about the limit when not wearing glasses. Sorry, I can't tell you about the amount of adjustment for short-sightedness, my eyes are +1.5 and there's still plenty of adjustment both ways.
PM on its way to you.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G |
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Henry Fisher
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Forum.
Thank you all for the warm welcome here. I am enjoying the good company.
peterqd said: | Quote: | | I believe Henry was talking about his problems with the Kiev 4a and I feel I must jump here in to defend the Zorki - it has lots of quirks and faults, but the viewfinder is its best feature in my opinion ..... but the Zorki viewfinder is way oversize to start with. |
Yes, Peter, I was thinking of the Kiev 4a which I use, and its wee little peephole viewfinder. I should have been a bit clearer when I said early FSU Leica copies. I was thinking of those made early on, before Zorki 3. In fact, if I were to get another FSU RF today I would get a Zorki 3 or 4 because of the larger finder, and its simpler (than Contax) fabric shutter.
In my very prejudiced opinion, it appears that there are four major things going for the FSU RF solution:
1. Affordability
2. Lens interchangeability
3. All that "German inspired" M39 glass at reasonable prices
4. Rock solid build that will last forever, if a good working sample can be gotten to begin with
I would be careful to buy from a reputable source because of the QC problems during Soviet times. Repairs on an FSU camera can easily exceed the value of the instrument itself.
The advantages of the better fixed-lens Japanese RFs from the 60s and 70s seem to be these:
1. Overall, better QC, fit, and finish. A good working sample should be quite reliable.
2. Affordability
3. Larger viewfinders
4. Easier film loading (QL 17 means Quick Loading f/1.7)
5. Leaf shutters. Sync at all speeds. Impart no camera motion, and no focal plane distortion.
6. Very fast, sharp glass on some models
Throndor, I see that your eyes are quite near-sighted. I don't know if I have ever seen a camera with -5 diopters of correction. So, you will likely appreciate a large finder that allows you to use your glasses.
I see that Rick Oleson is a Member here. It is with his guidance and encouragement that I have repaired several things: A Nikkor 50mm F1.4, A broken ribbon in my Kiev 4a, and a stiffened, capping shutter in my Practica FX. How privileged we are that he is here to show us the way with all this classic MMM gear that has our imaginations captivated.
Happy day.
_________________
Henry Fisher
A certified dinosaur using F, F2, M3, K4a
"I think there's some sense of magic in the fact that what's out there can be caught in this little box." ~ John Loengard |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 7760
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| estudleon wrote: | | I knew professionals in the diary Clarin and Nacion (argentine) whom, to work in night's events, leaved your leicas at the office and go with the konicas. |
Well, it depends where you plan to go. To some areas I would neither bring my Leica M - if I had one, that is. 
_________________
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who divide the world into two kinds of people, and those who don’t.
"Schnäppchenjäger" | "KAPCTEH" | "Karusutenu" | "Carsten" | T-shirt?
Cams in use: EOS 40D, EOS 350D, EOS 50e, EOS 500, Spotmatic SPII, EXA I & 1c, Zenit EM; Oly 35RC,Minolta Hi-Matic E & F, Ricoh 500RF, Yashica Electro 35 GS, FED-3b and some others...
Lenses in use: Asahi Pentax: 2.8/28;3.5/35;1.4/50;1.7/50;2.8/105;3.5/135;28-80 | Canon (AF):1.8/50;17-85;75-300 | Former GDR: CZJ Flek 4/20; Pentacon 3.5/30; Pentaflex 1.8/50; CZJ 2.8/50; CZJ 4/135; Pentacon 4/200 | Fujinon: 43-75 | Hanimex: 3.5/23; 4/100;80-200 | Hoya: 25-42;80-205 | Leica: Elmarit-R 2.8/35 | Mamiya: 1.8/55 | Minolta: 1.7/50 | Nikkor: 2.8/24;2/35;2/50;1.2/55;1.8/85;3.5/135 | West German: Ludwig 2.9/50; Meyer 2.8/100; Will 4.5/105; Schneider 3.5/135;Enna 3.5/135; Zeiss 4/135;Isco 4/135; Enna 4.5/240 | Olympus: 3.5/28;1.4/50;3.5/135 | Rikenon: 1.7/50;35-70 | Rollei/Voigtländer: 1.4/55;1.8/50 | Russian: Peleng3.5/8; Zenitar2.8/16; MIR2.8/37; Volna2.8/50; Industar2.8/50; Industar3.5/50; Industar3.5/5cm; Helios2/50; Helios2/58; MIR38 3.5/65; Volna2.8/80; Jupiter2/85; Kaleinar2.8/100;Tair2.8/135; Jupiter3.5/135; Jupiter4/135; Telear3.5/200; Jupiter4/200; Tair4.5/300;RF: Jupiter2.8/35;Industar2.8/53 | Sigma: 28-85;28-105(AF);17-70(AF) | Soligor: 28-105;35-200;70-220 | Tamron: 2.5/24;2.5/135;60-300;70-210 | Tokina: 28-105;80-200;12-24(AF);70-210(AF) | Vivitar: 3.5/17;2/24;2/28;2.5/28;2.8/28 | Yashica: 2/5cm | Other Japanese: Cosina3.8/20; Albinar2.8/28; Porst1.8/35; Beroflex 8/500; Spiratone28-200; Maginon70-210
Green are the lenses I shoot the most.
More? http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 |
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Henry Fisher
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| LucisPictor wrote: | | estudleon wrote: | | I knew professionals in the diary Clarin and Nacion (argentine) whom, to work in night's events, leaved your leicas at the office and go with the konicas. |
Well, it depends where you plan to go. To some areas I would neither bring my Leica M - if I had one, that is. |
Nowadays, I wonder how many people walking the streets, bandits included, even have a clue what a Leica M is.
Some years ago I had just returned from Houston, where I had visited with an elderly cousin. I had taken some candid portraits of her while there, and I was showing them to my secretary after my return. She said words to this effect: "Wow. Those are great pictures! Did you take them with your yardsale camera?" I replied "Yes, I did. I'm glad you like them." That yardsale camera to which she was referring was an M3.
On another occasion, I was leaving the Montreal airport, returning home. I was passing security where my M3 was being examined. The inspector said "Nice camera. Does it only take black and white?" I said "It takes beautiful black and white images."
I have the impression that most folks in public, on seeing a chrome finished manual camera of any sort, probably think that it is junk, and that its owner cannot afford a "good" modern camera (electropolycarboplastiblob). Works for me. The camera is anything but threatening when doing candid imaging. And I just like the way it works.
Happy day.
_________________
Henry Fisher
A certified dinosaur using F, F2, M3, K4a
"I think there's some sense of magic in the fact that what's out there can be caught in this little box." ~ John Loengard |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 907
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry Fisher wrote: | | LucisPictor wrote: | | estudleon wrote: | | I knew professionals in the diary Clarin and Nacion (argentine) whom, to work in night's events, leaved your leicas at the office and go with the konicas. |
Well, it depends where you plan to go. To some areas I would neither bring my Leica M - if I had one, that is. |
Nowadays, I wonder how many people walking the streets, bandits included, even have a clue what a Leica M is.
Some years ago I had just returned from Houston, where I had visited with an elderly cousin. I had taken some candid portraits of her while there, and I was showing them to my secretary after my return. She said words to this effect: "Wow. Those are great pictures! Did you take them with your yardsale camera?" I replied "Yes, I did. I'm glad you like them." That yardsale camera to which she was referring was an M3.
On another occasion, I was leaving the Montreal airport, returning home. I was passing security where my M3 was being examined. The inspector said "Nice camera. Does it only take black and white?" I said "It takes beautiful black and white images."
I have the impression that most folks in public, on seeing a chrome finished manual camera of any sort, probably think that it is junk, and that its owner cannot afford a "good" modern camera (electropolycarboplastiblob). Works for me. The camera is anything but threatening when doing candid imaging. And I just like the way it works.
Happy day.
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The real reason that the people here don't use expensive things at the night, is because the night's thiefs know perfectly recognize expensive elements. They will steal you if you have a rolex, a Leica M, Hasselblad, etc.
There is a structure to buy and resell all this things. Nothing is by pure chance. The thiefs study catalogues, not be improvised, are professionals.
The time of ignorants and naive thiefs is gone. A long time ago.
Rino.
_________________
M42: tak 3,5/28
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Fuji: , 1,8/55, 1,4 50, 2.2/55, 4/85
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9 |
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Henry Fisher
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:13 am Post subject: |
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.
Hello Rino.
Thank you for the insight. I had no earthly Idea that criminals down there actually study catalogs in preparation for conducting robbery. Incredible.
I'm thinking our bandits are probably less educated. But now I will not be taking as many chances as before, just in case. I wonder if anyone has put other-brand logos or coverings on their gear to make it less "desirable" to thieves.
All the best,
_________________
Henry Fisher
A certified dinosaur using F, F2, M3, K4a
"I think there's some sense of magic in the fact that what's out there can be caught in this little box." ~ John Loengard |
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1864
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Henry Fisher wrote: | .
I wonder if anyone has put other-brand logos or coverings on their gear to make it less "desirable" to thieves.
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It's not unknown - I recall it happening years ago that some people would black out the maker's name, but I don't recall anyone putting a cheap name on a pricey camera. The trend for emblazoned shoulder straps is a bit of a giveaway, of course and that didn't used to be much of a problem.
Relatedly, it's becoming more heard of for some photographers to put their gear in diaper bags to mislead thieves, but it that carries on all that will happen is that genuine diaper bags will not be safe.
_________________
Dave
The Lenses of Farside
"The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and
prosperity is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious,
arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism."
-- Czech President Vaclav Klaus |
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