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zewrak
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 831
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: A question about composition |
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A friend immediatly said "good picture, shame shes walking out and not into it"
Is it really that annoying? As in should I fix it?
Full size http://www.flickr.com/photos/zewrak/sets/72157606034238258/
I guess I could photoshop her to the other side or redo the crop, but I want that size of the wall. I am also considering to remove the ventilation.
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My Flickr - Takumar.org
PENTAX K10D, Spotmatic
Asahi Auto Takumar 85/1.8
Asahi Takumar 105/2.8 135/3.5
Asahi Super Takumar 20/4.5 50/1.4 55/1.8 85/1.9 105/2.8 135/3.5 150/4 200/4
Asahi S-M-C Takumar 35/3.5 300/4
Asahi S-M-C Macro-Takumar 50/4,100/4
Last edited by zewrak on Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 932
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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I like it the way it is because, from the face expression, she really seems to want to go out and not to play anymore.
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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zewrak
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 831
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: | | I like it the way it is because, from the face expression, she really seems to want to go out and not to play anymore. |
Probably because I yelled. "STAND STILL YOU LITTLE BRAT! I AM TRYING TO TAKE A PHOTO HERE FOR GODS SAKE! GODDAMN IT!"
... Yes a joke.
_________________
My Flickr - Takumar.org
PENTAX K10D, Spotmatic
Asahi Auto Takumar 85/1.8
Asahi Takumar 105/2.8 135/3.5
Asahi Super Takumar 20/4.5 50/1.4 55/1.8 85/1.9 105/2.8 135/3.5 150/4 200/4
Asahi S-M-C Takumar 35/3.5 300/4
Asahi S-M-C Macro-Takumar 50/4,100/4
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12538
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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If you feel this is the good photo for you, you should not change it.
I personally feel the same as Alessandro with this image.
I think rules are good only as long as they help you with a photograph. If you like your photo and the rules get in the way, don't change your photo, break the rules.
This is how I do, then of course everyone has his own interpretation.
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
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www.oriofoto.net
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zewrak
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 831
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Orio wrote: | If you feel this is the good photo for you, you should not change it.
I personally feel the same as Alessandro with this image.
I think rules are good only as long as they help you with a photograph. If you like your photo and the rules get in the way, don't change your photo, break the rules.
This is how I do, then of course everyone has his own interpretation. |
Well, I am mostly thinking about future reference, to me it is not annoying and therefor it is up on flickr as is. I was just curious what people think when they see it, ofcourse I want people to think its a good photo. If people constantly think its bad, I might reconsider my choices. (id still have the better original  )
_________________
My Flickr - Takumar.org
PENTAX K10D, Spotmatic
Asahi Auto Takumar 85/1.8
Asahi Takumar 105/2.8 135/3.5
Asahi Super Takumar 20/4.5 50/1.4 55/1.8 85/1.9 105/2.8 135/3.5 150/4 200/4
Asahi S-M-C Takumar 35/3.5 300/4
Asahi S-M-C Macro-Takumar 50/4,100/4
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12538
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| zewrak wrote: |
Well, I am mostly thinking about future reference, to me it is not annoying and therefor it is up on flickr as is. I was just curious what people think when they see it, ofcourse I want people to think its a good photo. If people constantly think its bad, I might reconsider my choices. (id still have the better original ) |
It's not guaranteed that people is always right.
Look at the TV, what is that pleases most of the people? The most stupid programs.
The intelligent programs are liked by 1, 2 people over a hundred.
THis is not going to be different with photographs, or novels, or music records, etc.
So people's opinion, as in percentage of approvals, should be always taken with a grain of salt.
_________________
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Let's put it this way:
- there's an internet legend that someone posted a Cartier-Bresson (or pick your famous photographer) into a flickr 'challenge' group and it was panned and voted out.
- I was just at the Metropolitan Museum for their photo special, and the masters broke so many rules... for instance a Cameron portrait --
here: http://www.metmuseum.org/special/framing/century_images.asp --
is focused on the chin rather than the eyes.
Finally, the particular critic must not be aware of the whole other side of photographic tradition, for as I commented on your photo at flickr, I think your composition fits well into the classic thread: there's good resolution and static things are static, while the active is off center and challenges the viewer. I don't think this would be as strong a photo if you'd framed the girl walking into the frame.
But to each his own, I think anybody looking to develop their own strengths will get these sorts of comments, and needs to see that as misguided validation
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
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zewrak
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 831
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Nesster wrote: | This has me all excited now... Here's the photograph, I saw a real print of this Saturday:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrerabelo/70458366
Cartier-Bresson's composition is similar to yours: the active element is moving out of the frame.
The thing about photography is that you can use its connection to reality in order to challenge received wisdom; this goes back to the Muybridge studies of a galloping horse. |
Oh I am greatful for that link. I have some pictures that are similar to that, that I have never posted, because I thought id be the only one that would appreciate it 
Might have to have another look at them
_________________
My Flickr - Takumar.org
PENTAX K10D, Spotmatic
Asahi Auto Takumar 85/1.8
Asahi Takumar 105/2.8 135/3.5
Asahi Super Takumar 20/4.5 50/1.4 55/1.8 85/1.9 105/2.8 135/3.5 150/4 200/4
Asahi S-M-C Takumar 35/3.5 300/4
Asahi S-M-C Macro-Takumar 50/4,100/4
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12538
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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The guy who posted it anonymous has really black humour sense! 
What to say? I knew the image perfectly of course. I always loved it! And I loved it even before I knew it was Bresson's. One day I opened a book of Bresson's photos and recognized it - i had already seen it before, and remembered it well.
So I guess - it comes down to what people like or not. If someone does not like Cartier-Bresson's photos, he will probably not like it also when posted anonymously. If someone loves them, he will probably love the picture even if posted under another person's name.
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 2658
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Orio wrote: | | So I guess - it comes down to what people like or not. If someone does not like Cartier-Bresson's photos, he will probably not like it also when posted anonymously. If someone loves them, he will probably love the picture even if posted under another person's name. |
Then there's the guy who only says he likes it because that's what he thinks he's expected to say and he doesn't want to be the odd one out. The King's Suit of Clothes syndrome. He's not me.
I like your picture the way it is (although I'd like it better if it was levelled up a bit  ). The message is exactly what Allessandro said, a reluctant little model. Turning her the other way round would remove that message but add nothing back.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G |
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 932
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| peterqd wrote: | | I like your picture the way it is (although I'd like it better if it was levelled up a bit ). |
Look at it better Peter, the level is perfect with the movement, it gentle follows it down and out. Put it level and you'd lose a lot of the movement in the shot.
Actually Zewrak the more I look into your shot the more I like it, and I'm not one of easy enthusiasms.
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 2658
Location: High Wycombe, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: | | Look at it better Peter, the level is perfect with the movement, it gentle follows it down and out. Put it level and you'd lose a lot of the movement in the shot. |
Well, I don't think so. If she was upright it would make the ground look as though it is sloping but as it is, it just looks like a tilted camera to me. But there is a lot of character as it is, I agree.
_________________
Lenses: M42 - CZJ 2.8/20, 2.4/35, 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 3.5/135 - Meyer/Pentacon 1.8/50, 2.8/50, 2.8/135, 4/200
Russian - J9, J21, J37A, M1v, M24m, I50-2, H44m-4 Vega12
Takumar 3.5/28, 2.0/35, 3.5/35, 1.4/50(x2), 1.8/55(x2), 1.9/85, 3.5/135 - Vivitar 2.8/28
K-mount : Pentax-M 2.8/28, 1.7/50 - Tamron zooms :SP28-80, SP35-80, SP60-300, 80-210
DSLR:Canon 400D 35mm SLR: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SPII(x2), SPF, ESII, K2, ME Super, P30 - Chinon CE3 - Minolta XG-M - Praktica Nova 1B, PLC2
Rangefinder: Zorki-4, Beauty Light-o-matic III Medium Format: Yashica-Mat 124G |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 12538
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if I am the only one, but I feel some anguish in this image. I think it's the big wall that does not let even a little sky for this child.
It is not a very optimistic image. It's a bit disturbing also I think.
THis reasoning of course has nothing to do with the artistic quality - there can be surely great photos that are also disturbing.
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ХОРИОС-61 ( ώρεος ) : Lens sana in corpore sano
www.timelessphotography.eu
www.oriofoto.net
Read list of equipment HERE
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 2671
Location: Anacortes Washington
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Zewrak
You should take your friends comment as a compliment. You perfectly convey the girls action. She is walking out of the scene. There is no other subject to reference but the blank wall. The wall gives a sense of the emptiness that she is leaving. Her expression is anxious and shows a desire to leave. I love it it is a fine capture and quite expressive. Your friend maybe is predisposed to make captures that reveal different expressions than you do. Chances are he/she would have missed this one. You on other other hand nailed it. This is what makes photography an expressive art form. Each photographer can have a different pre-vision for any given scene. |
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