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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: 6x4.5 folders |
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uddhava wrote:
I am interested in buying a 6x4.5 folding camera and was wondering what camera brands made a 6x4.5?
A 6x9--6x4.5 combo would be OK too.
Thank you for any replies or links. |
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evgenv
Joined: 06 Mar 2011 Posts: 47 Location: Moscow, Russia
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: Iskra |
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evgenv wrote:
Iskra (6x6) - cheap and qualitative, with rangefinder. Square - do not think about rotation.
A lot of examples. My:
http://album.foto.ru/photos/137518/ (all square)
http://album.foto.ru/photos/125935/ (with file name "Iskra...") and so on... |
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Teemō
Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Posts: 586 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Teemō wrote:
Not 6x4.5, but is a 6x6 or 6x9 combo: Moskva-5. Available in very nice condition on Ebay for about US$50. It has a rangefinder and dual-format viewfinder. |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 11:06 am Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
Thank you, but I am looking for a 6x4.5 folder.
I have a 6x6 already and 6x9s are easy to find around here. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57849 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Weltax cheapest and excellent option without rangefinder.
I love Konica Pearls they are more rare and available with coupled and non coupled RF both
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/lens/filmcamera/6x4_5/
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/lens/filmcamera/japanese/Konica/konica-pearl-3-fomapan-100/ _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
Thank you Attila. I forgot about the Weltax.
A Pearl would be great, but they are rare and expensive! |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6627 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
I have several. There really is a huge range of these things, dozens of brands, German and Japanese.
A very common one is the Zeiss Ikonta 521 version in 6x4.5
They seem to go for low prices.
I have one and it works very well. Most have a front-cell focus Novar triplet in a Prontor but that should be fine, its not a rangefinder camera so focus will be approximate. Stop down for best results.
Some had Tessars, some had Compur shutters, etc. Practically speaking I don't see the difference.
The biggest problem with these is the same for any folder - condition.
Bellows, shutter, lens, thats what you have to check.
Pretty much all the mini-folders from the German makers of the day were about the same quality. They all used the same shutters and mostly the same lenses, and the bellows were all good quality (much better than US-made Kodaks bellows).
Welta had some problems because in some models the body was sheet steel instead of aluminum, so rust.
Considerably better quality than the Zeiss Ikontas were the Kodak/Nagel (German made) Duo 620. The better ones had unit focusing (no rangefinder though) and the fit, finish and feel were much more solid than the Zeiss or anything else. Unfortunately unless you can find a Nagel version these were made for 620 film. I have used 120 film on these, the feed roll will fit if you clip the edges and use a 620 reel for takeup, so you don't really need to respool. They came in various lenses and shutters as usual, but the lenses and shutters were more often premium (if relabelled) Schneider Xenar and Compurs.
From what I have seen the Japanese ones were much more variable in quality. There is total trash there that you wont find among the Germans. One upside is the Japanese models you will find are generally postwar, and even then often newer than the Germans. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6627 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
I correct myself - my Zeiss folder is a Nettar 515 - same thing really, mainly just a different selection of lenses and shutters.
http://forum.mflenses.com/zeiss-nettar-515-6x4-5-cm-baby-folder-t25882,highlight,%2Bzeiss.html
I have a working Welta Perle and a Kodak Duo 620 also, and have shot rolls with them. I should do writeups. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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dan_
Joined: 05 Dec 2012 Posts: 1054 Location: Romania
Expire: 2016-12-19
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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dan_ wrote:
Plaubel made the Roll-Op 6 x 4.5 coupled RF folder cameras.
I have never had the chance to try one but all my Plaubel-made photographic gear proved to be very well manufactured, in the good German tradition.
It should be a very good RF folder - its coupled RF is the same as the one used in their Makina line of cameras.
If you want a more modern 6x4.5 RF camera I think the quality of the Fuji 645 cameras can't be beat (but they are not folders...). |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6627 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
I had a 6x4.5 Roll-Op, resold it.
It was nice enough. The RF isn't that hard to adjust. A bit complex to survive 70 years without requiring service.
http://forum.mflenses.com/plaubel-roll-op-6x4-5-rangefinder-camers-1938-t66146,highlight,%2Bplaubel.html _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:15 am Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
Thanks a lot for all of this useful information.
I think I might find some by Voigtlander also. It seems they had many
combination models with 6x9 and 6x4.5 together. I would prefer a plain
6x4.5 for the small size though.
Today I will look around Budapest for one. |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
I found a very basic camera that can shoot in either 6x9 0r 6x4.5 format.
It is a Beirax II with a Meritar 4.5/105 lens on a Junior shutter. It only has three speeds 25, 50 and 100 and also B.
It seems to be in excellent condition.
I will put some film into it and try it out at 6x4.5 size first. |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6627 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Good luck!
105mm is short portrait FL for 6x4.5 format. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
luisalegria wrote: |
Good luck!
105mm is short portrait FL for 6x4.5 format. |
Thank you.
I will keep that in mind. What is it when shooting 6x9? |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6627 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
A bit wide-normal.
Conversion to 35mm comparative FL is a little bit of a matter of opinion
More or less, 105mm on
6x4.5 = 68mm on 35mm
6x9 = 46mm on 35mm
One of many charts -
https://gregneville.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/focalchart-1.gif _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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Olivier
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 5077 Location: France
Expire: 2015-08-06
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Olivier wrote:
I have a Mamiya-Six Type K Setagaya Kki Sekor 3,5/7,5cm. It's a 6x6 and 4.5x6 by rotating panels in the chamber.
I also have a Suruga Seiki Co Mihama Six Model II Anastigmat 3,5/75mm wich has the same system giving both formats : 6x6 and 6x4.5.
Another folding having this format is the french camera Royer 6x9 4,5x6 Special Berthiot 4,5/105mm. But you need to have the 4.5x6 adapter to install in the chamber. Same system as for the Moskva-4 and 5 with formats 6x9 and mask for 6x6. _________________ Olivier - Moderator
Dslr : Olympus Pen E-P2 - Fujifilm X-Pro2 - Canon 5D MkII.
SLr and MF lenses : for feedback and helping people, cameras and lenses I own : full list here http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1442740.html#1442740 |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:00 am Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
Olivier wrote: |
I have a Mamiya-Six Type K Setagaya K�ki Sekor 3,5/7,5cm. It's a 6x6 and 4.5x6 by rotating panels in the chamber.
I also have a Suruga Seiki Co Mihama Six Model II Anastigmat 3,5/75mm wich has the same system giving both formats : 6x6 and 6x4.5.
Another folding having this format is the french camera Royer 6x9 4,5x6 Special Berthiot 4,5/105mm. But you need to have the 4.5x6 adapter to install in the chamber. Same system as for the Moskva-4 and 5 with formats 6x9 and mask for 6x6. |
Thank you for the information. |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
I finished one roll of film. The photos are kind of dark and I chopped off some heads composing through the viewfinder.
The negatives were scanned by the people that developed the film. Fomapan 100 was the film. I am not sure what to think.
My estimation of the distances may have been off and perhaps I did not choose my subjects wisely. Any comments or help welcomed. With some PP some of them would look better.
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6627 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Seems like you have a contrast problem, partly. Did you use a hood ? I find this very important.
Yellow filter is also very useful in daylight, improving contrast in several ways.
Focus needs good distance estimation, the longer the lens the more so. I always use small stops as much as possible for better depth of field. Wide open (f/4.5?) on these things isn't very useful.
Also check for haze (I dont think its a bad case if you have it).
Also worth checking is if infinity is correct. I cut a piece of thin clear plastic to go over the film guides, and sand one side with very fine sandpaper to make an ersatz groundglass. Set the shutter to T or B and aperture to wide open, and check if infinity gives you a sharp picture. Its often necessary to adjust this on folders. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:38 am Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
Thank you for the tips. I did not use a hood or a yellow filter. I will see if I have any the correct size. |
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Olivier
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 5077 Location: France
Expire: 2015-08-06
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Olivier wrote:
uddhava wrote: |
I finished one roll of film. The photos are kind of dark and I chopped off some heads composing through the viewfinder.
The negatives were scanned by the people that developed the film. Fomapan 100 was the film. I am not sure what to think.
My estimation of the distances may have been off and perhaps I did not choose my subjects wisely. Any comments or help welcomed. With some PP some of them would look better. |
I think you didn't begin in the best conditions by choosing a 6x9 6x4.5 folding limited to 1/100 and loaded with Fomapan 100 iso.
About heads chopped off, do you have a button or somewhat next to the viewfinder to reduce the view when 6x4.5 is chosen ?
What did you use to calculate exposition ?
Else, what I would do :
- Load a better film than Fomapan, for instance try Kodak TMax400 which is 400 iso and give better light latitude and has a fine grain quality.
- Find a rangefinder to set the correct distance on the lens.
- Beware moving blur when pressing shutter. Maybe use a release shutter cable.
- After a while, develop films and scan them by yourself.
For a beginning they are not so bad.
Oh, another thing, scans are usually done with settings keeping details in lights and shadows.
That gives dull and lifeless pictures.
We have to consider them as raw files and consequently they must be processed. _________________ Olivier - Moderator
Dslr : Olympus Pen E-P2 - Fujifilm X-Pro2 - Canon 5D MkII.
SLr and MF lenses : for feedback and helping people, cameras and lenses I own : full list here http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1442740.html#1442740 |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:14 am Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
Thank you for more tips. |
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Olivier
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 5077 Location: France
Expire: 2015-08-06
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Olivier wrote:
One of your pictures above quickly post processed in lightroom :
Your raw scan with details in lights and shadows
a proposal of post processing in LR with more contrast and local zones treatment
_________________ Olivier - Moderator
Dslr : Olympus Pen E-P2 - Fujifilm X-Pro2 - Canon 5D MkII.
SLr and MF lenses : for feedback and helping people, cameras and lenses I own : full list here http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1442740.html#1442740 |
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uddhava
Joined: 22 Aug 2012 Posts: 3072 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-06-21
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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uddhava wrote:
Yes, much better. Thanks for the sample. |
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