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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Nice, France
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 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: | | ChrisLilley wrote: | | A G Photography wrote: | | Btw, I don't see much the need to put a chip inside a macro lens. AF is almost useless in macro (and focus confirm still works in Nikon digitals) while perfect exposition can be found with a couple of test shots (and better than automatic). |
A CPU chip has nothing to do with autofocus. |
It has with focus confirmation, but the Nikons already have it for manual lenses. |
Focus confirmation is unrelated to autofocus.
A CPU chip has nothing to do with autofocus.
A CPU chip has nothing to do with focus confirmation.
What a CPU chip *will* do is tell the camera what focal length and max aperture your lens is, which will then show up in the exif data. It can also use this for center-weighted or spot metering, if you chose to use that (but it does not force you to, manual is still available of course). It may, depending on chip, also give you matrix metering.
Lastly, (on consumer Nikon models, ie not D200 and up) it will require you to set the aperture ring to minimum aperture and set aperture on the body.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light (lenses in use)
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 2469
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| yucel wrote: | | I'll also try to figre out the magnification ratio on a digital body. |
1:1 mean that 1cm photographed is 1cm on the film/sensor
when you set the macro lenses to 1:1, you will record the size of the sensor
6x6 on MF, 24x36mm on FF, less on cropped body
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Orio wrote: | | I agree with Alessandro, autofocus is not really useful for macro photography. |
I agree with everyone that autofocus is not useful for macro photography.
However, the original poster was not asking about autofocus; they are asking about a manual focus lens, used on a Nikon body.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light (lenses in use)
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: Re: 55mm micro nikkor on a digital body |
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| yucel wrote: | | I have a nikon d70s (1,5 crop factor) and I'm planning to modify (add a cpu inside) a 55mm f:3,5 micro nikkor to use on this body. |
The 55mm f/3.5 micro-nikkor lens is a good one. Its a 'pre-AI' lens which means you should be careful mounting it on the D70s; in theory it is not compatible. I will let a D70 user comment on whether this is actually a problem in practice. The later 55mm f/2.8 micro-nikkor is an Ai lens and will mount safely.
In case you are not aware, if it mounts, the micro-nikkor will work on your D70s already, without modification. However, you will need to set the camera to M mode, and set both the aperture (with the aperture ring) and the shutter speed (on the camera) yourself without any metering. The exif data in your image will show the shutter speed, but the aperture and focal length will be empty. If you use any mode other then M, your D70s will tell you that there is no lens attached. You will be able to use flash, but in manual mode not TTL mode.
If you successfully add a CPU (which also involves changing the mount for one with a contact block, or adding a contact block) then the following things change:
* you have to set the aperture ring to the minimum aperture, and set aperture on the camera body
* the focal length and aperture will be recorded in the exif data
* you can use A mode (and S and P, although you are unlikely to want to for macro photography)
* you can use centre-weighted and spot metering
* you may be able to use matrix metering
* you can use TTL flash
You will not, contrary to what some other postings indicated, magically transform the lens to autofocus not does it affect the focus confirm light in any way, which already works on non CPU lenses.
Its worth noting that you will need to get a CPU from a lens that has 55mm (or close) focal length. Also, there needs to be room to physically fit the cpu and its flexible circuit board. Macro lenses tend to be cramped inside and may contain light baffles, so fitting the chip might be tricky.
| yucel wrote: | | 55mm has 1:2 magnification ratio but since the film (ccd) plane is smaller by 1,5 times, does it mean magnification ratio will rise by 1,5 times. |
No, but you will get a bigger (more detailed) picture of the object on a crop cam. 
Magnification ratio is defined as the physical size of the object and the physical size of the image on the film or sensor. That was a handy definition in the days of optical enlargers, photographing documents and drawings to make exact copies (before photocopiers), or forensic and scientific photography where measurements could be made on slide film.
Magnification ratio is not that useful if you are asking 'will I get a bigger photo' - yes, you will. If you had a 6 megapixel full frame camera and a 6 megapixel DX crop camera, the image would be bigger (more pixels high) on the crop camera because the pixels are smaller. Note too that it would be even bigger (more pixels high) if you had a 10 megapixel DX crop camera, compared to a 6 megapixel crop camera.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light (lenses in use)
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai |
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rick_oleson
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 189
Location: Lexington Kentucky USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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1:2 is 1:2, it's a function of the lens and has nothing to do with the size of the negative or sensor.
The amount that you enlarge an image from a crop camera to create, say, an 8x12 print, is greater than the amount you would enlarge a full frame to make the same print, so that you get a larger image in the print from the crop camera.
1:2 means that the size of your subject at closest focus is 2x the size of your negative or image sensor. 2 times a 24x36mm full frame gives you a minimum subject size of 48x72mm. 2 times a 15x22.5mm sensor gives you a minimum subject size of 30x45mm. When you blow up a 30x45mm subject to an 8x10 print you get a higher final magnification than you get when you blow up a 48x72mm subject to an 8x10 print. But the magnification ratio is still 1:2 in the original image, which is what the 1:2 means.
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Richard_D
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2226
Location: Faversham Kent UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I know the 3.5 did survive into the AI period, there are also plenty (including mine) of AI'd 3.5's available. It's a cracking lens, and will give you 1:1 with the PK13 tube fitted, but it does reduce the light available dranatically!
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Richard
The interesting bit:
Nikkors: 20mm f2.8 AIS, 24mm f2.8 AIS, 28mm f2.8 AIS, 35mm f2.8 AIS, 50mm f1.4 AI, 50mm f1.48AI, 50m f2 AI,
55mm f3.5 AI'd, 105mm f4 AI, 135mm f2.8 AI'd, 135mm f3.5 AI'd, 200mm f4 AI'd, 300mm f4.5 AIS .
Nikon E Series: 100mm f2.8 .
Soviet Nikon Mount: Jupiter 9 (85mm f2), Mir-24N (35mm f2),
Tair-11a (135mm f2.8 ) .
Other: Meyer-Gorlitz Trioplan 100mm f2.8 (M42), Asahi Super Takumar 55 mm f2 (M42) ,Tokina 17mm f3.5 (AIS), Tamron 300mm f5.6 SP, Tamron 500mm f8 SP, Tamron 70-210 3.5(constant) .
DSLR: Nikon D200. 35mm SLRsNikon FE, Nikon EL2, Pentax S1a.
Sub-Minature: Pentax Auto 110, 18mm f2.8, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f2.8.
More to come... |
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yucel
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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OK, finally I got my 55mm micro lens. It is an AI lens so no problem on d70s body. Tested it for several shots and the first thing I noticed is the light weight of the lens. Built quality is usual MF nikkor. I just shot some photos in the balcony so cannot speculate on the results yet.
As you mentioned test shots are OK for exposure control but I guess I'll try to modify it for quick shots in the wild.
One handheld shot from this lens. MIR cpu contacts
Again thanks a lot for all replies.
Last edited by yucel on Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| yucel wrote: |
One handheld shot from this lens. MIR cpu contacts
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Is that a MIR lens that comes with CPU contacts, or one that you modified to add them?
Edited to add: I now see that yucel had mentioned modifying this lense earlier in the thread, but I had missed that posting.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light (lenses in use)
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai
Last edited by ChrisLilley on Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 10764
Location: West Emilia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisLilley wrote: |
Is that a MIR lens that comes with CPU contacts, or one that you modified to add them? |
Modified, for sure.
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LENSES: Russian, Zeiss, Leitz, old Nikkors.
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 597
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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I thought you would use a chip just like the dandelion for the Olympus adapter not a real lens CPU.
I can see now what you are to, but still don't know if it really worth the effort unless you use the 55mm as a normal lens because for macro shot you are so near to your subject that it's often better to use manual exposition.
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Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
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DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Chinon CX, Yashica FX-3
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CZJ m42: Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Biotar 58/2, Sonnar 135/3.5, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schact Travegon 35/3.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 55/2, Vivitar 135/2.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| A G Photography wrote: | | I thought you would use a chip just like the dandelion for the Olympus adapter |
Why would a chip for an Olympus have any relevance, at all, to a Nikon lens used on a Nikon camera? I'm having great difficulty following your line of reasoning.
| A G Photography wrote: | | not a real lens CPU. |
Putting a real lens cpu (and the contact block, or a new mount with an existing contact block) is what one does when chipping a Nikkor lens.
| A G Photography wrote: | | I can see now what you are to, but still don't know if it really worth the effort unless you use the 55mm as a normal lens because for macro shot you are so near to your subject that it's often better to use manual exposition. |
And write down the lens used and the aperture on a slip of paper, perhaps? 
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light (lenses in use)
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Orio wrote: | | ChrisLilley wrote: |
Is that a MIR lens that comes with CPU contacts, or one that you modified to add them? |
Modified, for sure. |
That was my guess. So now we know that yucel has already successfully CPU-modified other Nikon-fit lenses. However, the 55mm micro-nikors are described by Bjørn Rørslett as Modification may be possible, but restrictions to the use of the lens could apply in some cases.
| Quote: | | I've opened it up for inspection and this isn't going to be an easy job |
Which is why I cautioned that this particular lens might be awkward, due to the baffles inside which need to be cut to make room for the cpu and its flexible pcb.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light (lenses in use)
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai |
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 597
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| ChrisLilley wrote: | | A G Photography wrote: | | I thought you would use a chip just like the dandelion for the Olympus adapter |
Why would a chip for an Olympus have any relevance, at all, to a Nikon lens used on a Nikon camera? I'm having great difficulty following your line of reasoning.
| A G Photography wrote: | | not a real lens CPU. |
Putting a real lens cpu (and the contact block, or a new mount with an existing contact block) is what one does when chipping a Nikkor lens.
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Simply because I've never heard before to put a chip on a AI-AIS lens and never seen a lens with such modding. The only one I see are the chips used on adapters or for Nikkors the AI modification for F lenses. There's always something to learn.
_________________
Alessandro
My Blog about Italian Cuisine and Photography
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Chinon CX, Yashica FX-3
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CZJ m42: Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Biotar 58/2, Sonnar 135/3.5, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5
Russians: Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schact Travegon 35/3.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 55/2, Vivitar 135/2.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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For those unaware of the procedure when CPU-modifying a Nikkor lens, this photographic description (in this case a teleconverter is modified, but the chip and flexible PCB are much the same) may be of interest.
Normally one uses a CPU where the focal length (and ideally the exit pupil) are the same or close to the ones of the lens to be modified. Autofocus prime lenses whose glass is busted are the usual donors (from a freindly repair shop, or ebay 'as is', 'for spares' or 'broken' sales.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light (lenses in use)
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| rick_oleson wrote: | | yucel wrote: |
Anyway I understand that 55mm f3,5 is not a very advisable lens. |
??
| yucel wrote: |
I'll also try to figre out the magnification ratio on a digital body. |
?????
Sorry, I can't understand either of these. |
By 'not advisable' I believe yucel was referring to the difficulty of modifying that articular lens. I posted a link to that later in the thread.
The fact that the optical magnification ratio is unchanged but the height of the object, in pixels, does change was also explained later on.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light (lenses in use)
Camera: Nikon D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Nikkor-S.C 50mm f/1.4 non-AI | Nikon 50mm f/1.8 E | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Vivitar Series 1 (Kiron) 70-210 f/3.5 | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai |
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