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35mm f2.5 Lenses - Are They Angenieux Copies?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:52 pm    Post subject: 35mm f2.5 Lenses - Are They Angenieux Copies? Reply with quote
I know of three 35mm f2.5 lenses - the Angenieux, the Canon FL and the Sankyo Kohki W-Komura 35mm F/2.5.
I have read somewhere and can't find it again, that the Sankyo Kohki W-Komura 35mm F/2.5 is a copy of the Angenieux.
Is it possible that all three share the same optical design?
Any thoughts please
Tom


PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is also the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F/2.5


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Komura/Canon has one more element than the Angenieux.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
calvin83 wrote:
Komura/Canon has one more element than the Angenieux.


Thank you Calvin.
Do you have access to schematics of the lenses.
I could not find them
Tom


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There have been many lenses inspired by the Angenieux retrofocus lens with similar designs.

Here's the 35/2.5 Angenieux:


Here's the 35/2.3 Takumar:


Not much of a difference... Except that nowadays the Angenieux is about ten times more expensive than the Takumar!

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excellent Sebastien, Merci bien!

Pierre Angenieux invented the retrofocus design, so of course there are many similar ones...


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Abbazz.
Appreciated
Tom


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
Komura/Canon has one more element than the Angenieux.


Thank you Calvin.
Do you have access to schematics of the lenses.
I could not find them
Tom

I don't have the Koumra but you can find the Canon here https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fllenses/index.htm .


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 35mm f2.5 Lenses - Are They Angenieux Copies? Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
I know of three 35mm f2.5 lenses - the Angenieux, the Canon FL and the Sankyo Kohki W-Komura 35mm F/2.5.
I have read somewhere and can't find it again, that the Sankyo Kohki W-Komura 35mm F/2.5 is a copy of the Angenieux.
Is it possible that all three share the same optical design?
Any thoughts please
Tom


I wouldn't say that they have similar designs because they are f2.5, it's more a function of the era in which the lens was designed, this was the first design that permitted wide angle lens designs with a mirrorbox that pushed the optics out from their typical location, so when their patent expired, they all copied it in some way... Whether they were 35/2.5, or 28/3.3 or whatever.

Angenieux 35mm f2.5 Retrofocus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photographic_lens_design
Have a look in this thread, lots of diagrams on variations: http://forum.mflenses.com/skoparex-3-4-35-t23110.html
Auto Takumar 35/2.3


Enna 35/3.5


no-X wrote:
The classical concept of retrofocal lenses consist of one front element or group of elements (typically negative), which is the base of retrofocal optical formulas and rear optical group.

Almost all typical designs were used for the rear group:


triplet:




tessar:




ernostar:




xenotar:




planar (ultron):




They are sometimes called (after character of the rear group) retrofocal tessar, retrofocal triplet, etc.

Anyway, later retrofocal lenses are more complex and these characteristic signs are present no more.


35mm f2.5 Color Skopar Not even close to the same design.


Nikkor-S Auto 35mm f/2.8 First version. As you can see, these Nikors are very similar to the Angenieux.

2nd version.

https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0038/index.htm

You can see that the design has progressed from one big negative element to multiple weaker elements.
Canon FL 35/2.5 In this case it is a doublet.

http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1138626.html

Takumar 28/3.5 And in this case, it 2 discrete elements...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/S-M-C-Super-Takumar-28mm-F3.5.html



Progressing to a much more modern design:
Zeiss 21mm f/2.8


Other stuff:
Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH


PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Calvin.
And thank you Lightshow for the comprehensive collection of schematics and explanation.
Much appreciated
Tom
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