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300mm Mirror Lenses
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvin83 wrote:
Apart from the sharpness of the mirror lens, how precisely of the focus is also very important. This is the reason why I like the Tamron. I can focus fast and accurately with it but no other ~300mm mirror lenses I have tried.

The focus throw on the Spiratone is a bit shorter than the Tamron's. But in fact, since the Tamron focuses much closer (1.1m vs. 2.5m), the figures on the focus scale next to infinity are more cramped than on the Spiratone, so I can focus the Spiratone a bit more precisely for distant subjects. Of course the close focusing ability of the Tamron makes it preferable at close range.

Here are two pictures I just took a few seconds apart, the first one with the Spiratone, the second one with the Tamron (both straight out of camera JPEGs; as usual, click on any picture to see it full size):





As expected, the Tamron is sharper and shows a bit more contrast. In real life though, I tend to choose the Spiratone because it's smaller and lighter. And I'm sure I would favor the Minolta 250mm if I had one!

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Abbazz for the comparison. I should find a copy of the Spiratone as I have sold my Tamron.

Apart from focus throw, the resistance/damping of the focus ring is important too for precise focus. The Minolta is not easy to focus as the lens is tiny and the focus throw is short although the focus ring is well-damped. For lenses without tripod mount, I would suggest using an adapter with a tripod mount/QR plate - use the palm as the support while focusing the lens with thumb and fore finger. The Tamron has a build-in tripod mount which makes it easy to focus out of the box.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvin83 wrote:
Apart from the sharpness of the mirror lens, how precisely of the focus is also very important. This is the reason why I like the Tamron. I can focus fast and accurately with it but no other ~300mm mirror lenses I have tried.


I hope to find a Tamron or Rubinar some day.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
Apart from the sharpness of the mirror lens, how precisely of the focus is also very important. This is the reason why I like the Tamron. I can focus fast and accurately with it but no other ~300mm mirror lenses I have tried.


I hope to find a Tamron or Rubinar some day.

I don't like the Rubinar as it is hard to focus(may be my copy has stiff focus ring). I will report back if I can found a copy of Spiratone to test.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday with the Ohnar. The last picture is a merge from two images with different points of focus.











PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
Yesterday with the Ohnar. The last picture is a merge from two images with different points of focus.



Like the work w the Ohnar: sweet colors & nice shallow dof in composition--especially 2,3 and the last one. Best jt


PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvin83 wrote:
woodrim wrote:
calvin83 wrote:
Apart from the sharpness of the mirror lens, how precisely of the focus is also very important. This is the reason why I like the Tamron. I can focus fast and accurately with it but no other ~300mm mirror lenses I have tried.


I hope to find a Tamron or Rubinar some day.

I don't like the Rubinar as it is hard to focus(may be my copy has stiff focus ring). I will report back if I can found a copy of Spiratone to test.


The focus ring on my Rubinar 300/4.5 is the same, stiff to turn. My Rubinar 500/5.6 is also the same. I suspect a manufacturer "thing".
Years ago when I bought the 500/6.6 there was quite a bit of forum discussion on dismantling and re-greasing it. But I don't recall which forum.
I used to use the Rubinar 500/5.6 as a guide 'scope for astrophotography. The stiff focus was an advantage there, it didn't shift from one night to the next.
I shall persist with the 300/4.5 a bit longer but I suspect I will be selling it sooner or later.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Focusthrow wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Yesterday with the Ohnar. The last picture is a merge from two images with different points of focus.



Like the work w the Ohnar: sweet colors & nice shallow dof in composition--especially 2,3 and the last one. Best jt


I agree, lovely colors.
Makes me wish I had bid on the Ohnar for sale on eBay yesterday.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3dpan wrote:
Focusthrow wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Yesterday with the Ohnar. The last picture is a merge from two images with different points of focus.



Like the work w the Ohnar: sweet colors & nice shallow dof in composition--especially 2,3 and the last one. Best jt


I agree, lovely colors.
Makes me wish I had bid on the Ohnar for sale on eBay yesterday.


Really? I missed it. What did it sell for?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
3dpan wrote:
Focusthrow wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Yesterday with the Ohnar. The last picture is a merge from two images with different points of focus.



Like the work w the Ohnar: sweet colors & nice shallow dof in composition--especially 2,3 and the last one. Best jt


I agree, lovely colors.
Makes me wish I had bid on the Ohnar for sale on eBay yesterday.


Really? I missed it. What did it sell for?



102 GBP, a very good price I think.
Here's the listing,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362160693799?ul_noapp=true


PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3dpan wrote:
woodrim wrote:
3dpan wrote:
Focusthrow wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Yesterday with the Ohnar. The last picture is a merge from two images with different points of focus.



Like the work w the Ohnar: sweet colors & nice shallow dof in composition--especially 2,3 and the last one. Best jt


I agree, lovely colors.
Makes me wish I had bid on the Ohnar for sale on eBay yesterday.


Really? I missed it. What did it sell for?



102 GBP, a very good price I think.
Here's the listing,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362160693799?ul_noapp=true


This was a "UK-only" sale, no wonder it did not show up...


PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ohnar looks like a typical cheap telephoto to my eyes, not bad but not great, I understand the appeal of the small size, but I think you could get far better results from a non-mirror 300 of good quality like the Hexanon 4.5/300.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's Herbert Keppler's comparison between two 300/5.6 lenses: the Cambron (I think it's the same lens as the Ohnar) and the Spiratone. Guess what? The Spiratone is better but the Cambron is smaller! Click on picture to enlarge:




Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice article. Do you have the Modern Tests also that Keppler was referring to?


PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt the Spiratone is a different lens. However, the Ohnar I believe appears with several other names, including Cambron, as mentioned. A local friend of mine bought a Cambron of the same style as the Ohnar with apertures. He shoots it at f/5.6 because the other aperture settings do virtually nothing other than reducing light. His lens is equal to mine and a photograph from his can be seen in an earlier post (signed Marlo). We refer to his lens as an Ohnar. I have purchased, but not yet received, a Super Danubia, which I believe to also be the same as the Ohnar. At the time of this writing, there is another of these Ohnar type with less than an hour to go on ebay - a Super Paragon.

The perception I've had since I began researching these lenses is that Spiratone has been highly regarded and the prices have reflected that in the rare occasions when one becomes available. Another that I am curious about is the Soligor. I wonder which one it is in relation to these others we've discussed.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Nice article. Do you have the Modern Tests also that Keppler was referring to?

The review for the Spiratone has been posted earlier in this thread:
http://forum.mflenses.com/300mm-mirror-lenses-t77672,start,50.html#1503442

As for the Cambron/Ohnar lens, I don't know if the test results were ever published by Modern Photo.

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
No doubt the Spiratone is a different lens. However, the Ohnar I believe appears with several other names, including Cambron, as mentioned. A local friend of mine bought a Cambron of the same style as the Ohnar with apertures. He shoots it at f/5.6 because the other aperture settings do virtually nothing other than reducing light. His lens is equal to mine and a photograph from his can be seen in an earlier post (signed Marlo). We refer to his lens as an Ohnar. I have purchased, but not yet received, a Super Danubia, which I believe to also be the same as the Ohnar. At the time of this writing, there is another of these Ohnar type with less than an hour to go on ebay - a Super Paragon.

The perception I've had since I began researching these lenses is that Spiratone has been highly regarded and the prices have reflected that in the rare occasions when one becomes available. Another that I am curious about is the Soligor. I wonder which one it is in relation to these others we've discussed.


According to this link there is no Soligor 300mm mirror, only different versions of the Soligor 500mm mirror.
https://www.apotelyt.com/photo-lens/soligor-catalog

Cheers,
Alec


PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3dpan wrote:
According to this link there is no Soligor 300mm mirror, only different versions of the Soligor 500mm mirror.
https://www.apotelyt.com/photo-lens/soligor-catalog

There is indeed a Soligor 300mm mirror lens. In fact, there is one for sale on eBay right now (although I do not recommend this particular seller because of their outrageous prices):



As far as I can tell from the pictures, it's the same lens as the Spiratone.

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz wrote:
3dpan wrote:
According to this link there is no Soligor 300mm mirror, only different versions of the Soligor 500mm mirror.
https://www.apotelyt.com/photo-lens/soligor-catalog

There is indeed a Soligor 300mm mirror lens. In fact, there is one for sale on eBay right now (although I do not recommend this particular seller because of their outrageous prices):



As far as I can tell from the pictures, it's the same lens as the Spiratone.

Cheers!

Abbazz


Aah, the plot thickens. Time to update my Soligor reference.
And yes, whenever I see that eBay seller I think "outrageous prices"

Cheers,
Alec


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hah! I use kev's prices as a marker. Take the BIN price then divide by 3 or 4 and you are in the ballpark. You can usually recognize them just by the photos.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread has had me looking at e-bay for mirror lenses again.

Found two that aren't for me but might be of interest Smile

This one is somewhat out of my price range!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Nikon-Reflex-Nikkor-2000mm-f-11-Mirror-lens-w-Aluminum-case-2000-11/152672038234?hash=item238bf66d5a:g:jrQAAOSwzgRWuwqS

The other is more tempting one of the few ZOOM mirror lenses:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMC-Pentax-Reflex-Zoom-Mirror-Lens-400-600mm-with-case/263344214084?hash=item3d5089d044:g:A4EAAOSwTO9aGYul

In addition I saw a interestingly titled listing:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tamron-Mirror-Lens-x-2-FO-56M11-200mm-1-5-6-No-752595-752963/382296340516?hash=item5902a33824:g:xA0AAOSw8a1ZrSRw

DEFINTELY not what they claim - looks to me like the rear group from 2 similar lenses (slightly more of the mounting on one than the other) No sign of a mirror & perhaps the most fungus I've seen in a lens shot!
Anyone got a idea what they're from?


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
Nice article. Do you have the Modern Tests also that Keppler was referring to?

The review for the Spiratone has been posted earlier in this thread:
http://forum.mflenses.com/300mm-mirror-lenses-t77672,start,50.html#1503442


Thanks! I dunno how I managed to miss that post. Still, I find MP's test results to be low. 44 lppmm? That's actually not very good at all. And that table above the test, showing very low numbers for the Sigma 600 and Tamron 500? Frankly, I just don't believe them. I have images I can show that belie those resolution numbers.

DConvert, I was checking out the links you provided. In the last one, there was an advertisement for another eBay seller, who has a Dinubia 500/6.3 for sale:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Danubia-Telephoto-f6-3-500mm-T2-Mount-Mirror-Lens/262501420496?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49479%26meid%3Db0c9e262e6664e34bd2e1097498fd8ea%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D382296340516&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Is this the same as the Samyang 500/6.3? Anyway, because it was an f/6.3 lens, I thought it might be interesting.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:


Is this the same as the Samyang 500/6.3? Anyway, because it was an f/6.3 lens, I thought it might be interesting.


It looks to me one of the many rebranded Samyangs. Does anyone here have that lens? For the price, I would recommend the Maksutov (MTO) 3M-6A 6.3/500. See my big Mak images here:
http://www.pbase.com/mdlempert/maksutov


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:


DConvert, I was checking out the links you provided. In the last one, there was an advertisement for another eBay seller, who has a Dinubia 500/6.3 for sale:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Danubia-Telephoto-f6-3-500mm-T2-Mount-Mirror-Lens/262501420496?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49479%26meid%3Db0c9e262e6664e34bd2e1097498fd8ea%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D382296340516&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Is this the same as the Samyang 500/6.3? Anyway, because it was an f/6.3 lens, I thought it might be interesting.


I was given an Opteka 500mm f6.3 DG which I believe is a Samyang rebrand. It doesn't look quite like the Danubia, nothing like a flash in the finish. Though perhaps it's just a change in the rubber focus control, & better painting...
All the f/6.3 Samyang models I saw on e-bay have a little plate for the manufacturers name (my Opteka is the same & has the same rubber as all these). Strangely the f/8 Samyangs have the brand engraved directly on the lens as seen with the Danubia.

The length value I have listed for the lens doesn't match the 115mm in the ebay listing, but the difference could simply be the T2 adapter.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Abbazz wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
Nice article. Do you have the Modern Tests also that Keppler was referring to?

The review for the Spiratone has been posted earlier in this thread:
http://forum.mflenses.com/300mm-mirror-lenses-t77672,start,50.html#1503442


Thanks! I dunno how I managed to miss that post. Still, I find MP's test results to be low. 44 lppmm? That's actually not very good at all. And that table above the test, showing very low numbers for the Sigma 600 and Tamron 500? Frankly, I just don't believe them. I have images I can show that belie those resolution numbers.

DConvert, I was checking out the links you provided. In the last one, there was an advertisement for another eBay seller, who has a Dinubia 500/6.3 for sale:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Danubia-Telephoto-f6-3-500mm-T2-Mount-Mirror-Lens/262501420496?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49479%26meid%3Db0c9e262e6664e34bd2e1097498fd8ea%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D382296340516&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Is this the same as the Samyang 500/6.3? Anyway, because it was an f/6.3 lens, I thought it might be interesting.



I think MP test results are lines/mm, not line pairs/mm. So their value 44 l/mm is the same as 88 lppmm. Would that make sense ?

edit=NO

The other way around.
A line pair is a black line followed by a white line, i.e. 2 lines.
So maybe MP test results are in line pairs/mm, so 44 lppmm is the same as 88 lines/mm (44 black plus 44 white).