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100 mm league test..
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

estudleon wrote:

Lucispictor

I like so much your serious test

http://lucispictor.weebly.com/80test2.html



This is nothing but a fun test ... fun for me.
That's why I carry through comparisons like this one.
It's fun (and I wanted to play with Weebly.com).


PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:

I suspect the performance of the other three lenses is quite a bit better than that shown, especially the Hassy's. Those images almost look as if there was camera shake. The tester should have locked up the Hassy's mirror.


I am thinking the same thing, camera shake, but I have found other comments, on the web, about "this" test, that the Hassy image has "coma". Im thinking now this shake might be coma in the Hassy image.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

100mm f2 planar, I bough it yesterday
sample at f2, f4, f5.6
http://cid-7ed3a22b5b1e160b.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/street?uc=3


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuananhmap wrote:
100mm f2 planar, I bough it yesterday
sample at f2, f4, f5.6
http://cid-7ed3a22b5b1e160b.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/street?uc=3


I get a server error when I click on the above link.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Nikkor AI is a Xenotar, then it's basically a Biometar lens.
Xenotar and Biometar are identical:

Xenotar:


Biometar:


Biometar and Xenotar are somehow "hybrids" between Planar and Sonnar.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Historically, the Biometer is an altered version of the Biotar.
The cemented element behind the diaphragm has been replaced by a meniscus. Thus the Biometar is a mixture between the classic Biotar and a Topogon design and combines the advantages of both ideas: fast lenses and wide angles.

(Source: Hartmut Thiele: Carl Zeiss Jena, Entwicklung und Beschreibung der Photoobjektive und ihre Erfinder. Mnchen 2007)


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LucisPictor wrote:
Historically, the Biometer is an altered version of the Biotar.
The cemented element behind the diaphragm has been replaced by a meniscus. Thus the Biometar is a mixture between the classic Biotar and a Topogon design and combines the advantages of both ideas: fast lenses and wide angles.

(Source: Hartmut Thiele: Carl Zeiss Jena, Entwicklung und Beschreibung der Photoobjektive und ihre Erfinder. Mnchen 2007)


But Biometar is a normal/short tele lens. I don't recall ever seeing a wide angle Biometar.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
If the Nikkor AI is a Xenotar, then it's basically a Biometar lens.
Xenotar and Biometar are identical:

.....


The Nikon site provides a glossary. The Xenotar is described as....

..... "Xenotar 80mm f/2.8", was first released in 1954 .... standard lens for medium-size film format cameras by a German manufacturer, Schnider.
This lens is a modified version of a Gaussian (Gauss-type) lens...

There was also a lens called "Biometar" which was released around the same time by another German manufacturer, Carl Zeiss Jena.


It's interesting that Nikon chose to describe their lens as a Xenotar rather than a Biometar. Also they don't give the date of the Biometar design which may predate the Xenotar. And there are suggestions that at least some of the early Xenotars offered by Schneider were in fact rebadged Biometars manufactured by Carl Ziess Jena. Of course Schneider and CZJ came from different parts of Germany......


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
But Biometar is a normal/short tele lens. I don't recall ever seeing a wide angle Biometar.


Same for me, but yesterday I have found while searching for a wide angle for my Contax III this one here: Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carlsson wrote:
Orio wrote:
But Biometar is a normal/short tele lens. I don't recall ever seeing a wide angle Biometar.


Same for me, but yesterday I have found while searching for a wide angle for my Contax III this one here: Click here to see on Ebay


Hm... it entirely looks like the pre-war Biogon 2.8/35
My guess is it is the same lens (the Biogon) really and CZJ re-christianized it Biometar to avoid the copyright naming issues.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it looks indeed like the pre war Biogon. Sounds reasonable to me.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carlsson wrote:
Yes, it looks indeed like the pre war Biogon. Sounds reasonable to me.


I thought the pre-war 35mm f2.8 Biogon had a very large rear element that actually extended beyond the lens mount ... am I confusing it with another lens? Maybe a revised post war version? Have to say I'm no expert on old Contax lenses!


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scsambrook wrote:

I thought the pre-war 35mm f2.8 Biogon had a very large rear element that actually extended beyond the lens mount ... am I confusing it with another lens? Maybe a revised post war version? Have to say I'm no expert on old Contax lenses!


yes, black metal tube, you can see it in this lens also.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
scsambrook wrote:

I thought the pre-war 35mm f2.8 Biogon had a very large rear element that actually extended beyond the lens mount ... am I confusing it with another lens? Maybe a revised post war version? Have to say I'm no expert on old Contax lenses!


yes, black metal tube, you can see it in this lens also.


Orio - I must be confused - the one I have in mind has the rear glass protruding WAY beyond the mount and very exposed to damage. Or did you mean the one in the eBay pic actually IS a revised post war model?

Maybe my brain is working even slower than usual today - too good an evening yesterday Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm not 100% sure either - I only have the Jupiter-12 (the soviet clone).
My jupiter-12 looks exactly like this "biometar".


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Jupiter 12 has a much bigger rear lens.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth ... my brain seems to be working a bit better now ...

I used to have the Jupiter 12 in Leica screw and it had the massive rear element which I thought was identical to the pre-war Biogon.

I think that when Zeiss Oberkochen began Contax IIa/IIIa production in the 50s they made a revised Biogon which had a more "usual" rear element. I'm pretty sure about that. I think. Smile Now it might get interesting - is the Biometar in the eBay listing somehow related to the Oberkochen Biogon? Or the other way round? I guess we need a "serious" Contax expert to answer this one.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
tuananhmap wrote:
100mm f2 planar, I bough it yesterday
sample at f2, f4, f5.6
http://cid-7ed3a22b5b1e160b.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/street?uc=3


I get a server error when I click on the above link.


you counld check again Wink
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pmX-l3tOkIbT_9xYLRjM4yt0YWt1w9XGvw_Hhz8NwOW3KfSAlgwPM_SmZVsVRn_JdMSBM4R3-1d8EINmUfsGQ9Q/_MG_9772.JPG


PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I continued in the search of the schame of the 2,5/105 nikon lens.

1-The total view of the schame, remind clearly the sonnar 4/135 of 1932.

The last not had a splitted rear element like the nikon lens. That splitted element is only in gauss 5 elements like biometars, xenotars o planars?

The answer is NO. See the Takumar 2/58 (a sonnar schame). It has the rear splitted element like the nikon 105.

2- The nikon 105 has not a multielement second frontal group. This question don't let the 105 be a sonnar schame?

The sonnar 2,8/180 1954 version and the sonnar 60 of 1938 has only three frontal elements, like the nikkor 105.

3- Seems to be compatibility between the schames of the last 2,5/105 and the sonnars lenses.

Based in the known

http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Biotar_en.html

http://www.luciolepri.it/lc2/marcocavina/articoli_fotografici/Bertele_Sonnar/00_pag.htm

Rino.